Here's a typical situation (SE)

Richard Miller_2

Can't stop grinning. Atta boy!

Steve Ebels

This makes my blood boil

I received a call from a builder the first of the week, (after coming home all pumped up from Wetstock) to meet with him and the HO at the jobsite of a new home. We set a date (today) and I arrived 15 minutes early.

Here's what I found. A 40 X 90 2 story home with full basement already framed and enclosed. "ready for the subs" the builder said. All cement work is done, the location of the mechanical room is set (supposedly). No consideration to radiant floor was given by the builder. When I mentioned to the HO that he could have done a radiant floor in his basement for very little cost he asked "why didn't the builder say anything about that?" He's going to finish the entire basement. 9 foot ceilings down there. Just then the builder walked up and I said (within his earshot) "If your carpenter would have had his head out of the sand we could have had a heated basement floor no problem". I got a REALLY crosseyed look from the builder. Well, I'm sorry buddy but it's the truth. Why do builders not even think about hydronic heating?????

A gent who is an RPA board member was asking Cheese and myself "What can the RPA do to promote radiant heat"? I think the answer is to market it in such a manner that the home owner demands that his builder explore this option. The builders will not embrace it unless they feel they can turn an extra buck on it. At the very least they resist it just because it's different and it takes time to learn something new and they're scared of mistakes. Maybe they heard of a horror story regarding radiant that was installed by a person who shouldn't be doing it.

Radiant heat has to become a household term before it can reach any market penetration. It has to become the generic heating term. The default way of thinking/heating before it can really grow. Very seldom have I encountered a homeowner who was not willing to pay extra for the efficiency and comfort of a radiant system. I don't think price is the main hurdle. It's like brand awareness. Cola = Coke, tissue = Kleenex. That's the kind of automatic association we have to generate for radiant heat to reach the market that it should.

On top of that the builder had invited two other heating contractors there at the same time so I was ticked off royally. How does he expect to have an intelligent conversation about heating systems for this HO's dreamhome with 3 heating guys talking to him at once. Both the other guys were talking to the HO about forced air systems. One of the heat guys was talking aboout baseboard also. I told the HO to give me a call if he'd still like to talk with me after the other guys left and told him I had some different ideas about comfort than the other two.

The phone rang about 4 this afternoon and the HO said he'd like to hear what I had to say. To make a long story short I wound up giving him a rough estimate for a panel rad system with some floor warming under the kitchen and dining room that priced out about $8,000 higher than the "firm" seat of the pants guess he had just gotten from the other burned air guys. He said go ahead and put something on paper. I'll go back and measure the place up for a heat loss tomorrow and see how it goes. Wish me luck. I'm going to need it.

Happy day after Thanksgiving

ed wallace

hope you beat out those scorched air guys

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Online Sheriff \"Murph\"

good luck steve ....

think eskimos !!!

Mark Eatherton1

The fact...

that you are even taking the time to perform a heat loss should make the HO aware that you know what you're doing.

The primary reason most GC's shy away from radiant is because they've heard nightmares about it not working. It also tends to jack the price up on the home, and they want to give the HO the cheapest price possible, all while trying to eke out a living.

Building contractors are not unlike heating and plumbing contractors. As mechanics, they excell in their fields, as businessmen, the need some serious help.

In some cases, the only way they can make ANY money is to get the sub to do their jobs for less than they told the HO they could do it for, then pocket the difference.

We've had this conversation here before, but it bears repeating. The run of the mill GC is NOT your friend or best customer. Once you gain his trust, offer to do a system for him at his house for cost, just so he can experience the radiant experience. Then, once he's comfortable with the technolgy and your company, he'll include radiant on every job he can. He becomes your best salesman.

For this same reason, some smart wholesalers (like Dennis Bellanti at Ferguson Enterprises) will sell you a system at HIS cost, because he knows that once you've experienced radiant, it will naturally be easier for YOU to sell it to your customers, and when it comes time to buy a system for them, you'll remember what he did for you.

The fact that the HO called you back is a good sign.

Good luck Steve.

ME

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Steve Ebels

Got the job (GGGG)

I met with the HO again this morning with heatloss data and written estimate in hand. One of the first things he said to me was "Why didn't the other guys say anything about this heatloss stuff? Is hot water heat that much more technical?" How do you answer a question like that without bombing the other guys, one of whom has his shop about a helf mile from this place? I simply replied that he deserved my best effort and let it go at that.


We got into the nuts and bolts of why hydronic heat was best for his application. I explained that in a few years he and his wife would be empty nesters and wouldn't need to heat the whole place. A panel radiator system would let him turn down individual rooms when the need arose. Also if daughter number one likes her bedroom 80* she can do that without effecting the rest of the house. If him and the Mrs. like theirs at 60* they can do that too.

He also likes to cut wood, haul wood, stack wood, throw wood into the basement, burn wood. etc. and has plans for a woodburning cookstove in the kitchen, an airtight stove in the basement and obviously has a huge airtight fireplace as you can see from the pics. I explained that if he burned any one of these the panel rad system would be able to respond to rising temps room by room and be able to shut down whever it was not needed. This impressed him greatly. "Didn't know there were systems that could do that." was the exact comment.

I was launching into the indirect water heater end of things when he cut me off in mid sentence and said "figure on doing the job. I'll let the builder know and call the other heating guys." One of which the builder had already told he had the job. We hadn't even discussed price yet. I love it when that happens.

This place has 6173.3 heated sq. ft. in it. Situated on the banks of the river that he grew up by. It's going to be beautiful. I'll keep posting pics of the job as it progresses.

Steve Ebels

Whoops

New camera

Steve Ebels

Try again

NM

Online Sheriff \"Murph\"

I'M THINKIN'

That is the back of the house facing the river,and those are you're footprints ?? beautiful looking home ,great pics for the biz brochure!!

Mark Eatherton1

Congratulations!!

Like I said, you deserve to get the job just based on the fact that you were doing a heat loss. Guess he heard us talking eh...

Do us up proud (as usual)!

ME

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