the $900 water heater part 2

jim_14

Ok here it is as promised, the $900 water heater from about 1995. Looks to me as the only pipe work done was a few feet of copper off the top. The copper pipe in the rear of the pic looks like its older, I think they re-used most of that and soldered on a smaller section to fit to the tank. Notice the sloppy solder that ran down the pipe. Also vent pipe was re-used and gas hook up looks to be re-used as well.

The HWH is immediatly in front of you when coming down the basement stairs too the left of the tank not shown by the picture.

So whats the consensus? Was this a $900 in 1995 job? Is this a $900 job in todays dollars?

Unknown

I wonder how much extra

the bushing in the gas line was ?

Mark Hunt

The vent


is back pitched. Are there any CO detectors in the home?

Mark H

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Bill NTSG

All right Jim......

I admit at first I thought you being petty and trying to create something out of something that should have been let go of in 1996. This is not a proffessional looking job. I will say this, when our time on earth is up and we punch that time clock in the sky for the last time, I believe we will all have to account for actions. The people who installed this job and charged $900 I feel sorry for them and I hope they can sleep at night. I would not be able too. Instead of beating this dead horse any longer, say a prayer for these guys, they may need it.

hr

So what's your point, Jim

what exactly are you trying to get out of this thread. I suspect you already have answered you question many times over.

hot rod

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Unknown

The point I got

is that you dont always buy quality - whats the point of your question HR ?

Richard Miller_2

I will go out on a limb and say this lady was ripped off BIG TIME! But hear me out. Because of the work done she would have been ripped off if they had only charged $250.

You see, I don't know their cost of doing business so I cannot judge their price. I can only say that $900 seems a little on the high side but...???

Now I will explain why they ripped her off. The bushing in the gas line is illegal under every major gas piping code. That should have been replaced with a bell reducer or another legal reducing method. The venting is back graded. This is illegal and dangerous. I don't care if it was that way when they got there... they should have corrected it.

Also the vent pipe is not connected to the draft hood. It just sets on top of it. It is the wrong size so there is no way to connect it. It needs to have a vent reducer installed and the vent needs to be redone.

Last comment... where is the shut-off valve? Most codes require one on the cold side of a water heater. And the soldering work is pathetic!

So I guess I feel she was ripped off no matter what they charged. I would be angry if someone charged me $900 to threaten MY LIFE like this outfit did.

Richard Miller_2

Richard Miller_2

CORRECTION!

When I said $900 may have been a bit on the high side I was thinking in 1995 dollars... and I was forgetting that this was in a high cost of doing business city...

Paul Cooke

My thoughts

First: If the photo is correct and the vent for the water heater is sloped the wrong way, I would suggest that you go over to your neighbor's house tonight and turn off the gas. It's clearly a hazzard. Strongly suggest that they have it corrected.

Second: Finding shoddy workmanship is easy. It's out there in almost every home and commercial site I visit. Perhaps we can correct the situation by attracting quality young people to the trades by offering them some decent wages and benefits. Do you think that's going to happen? Not likely. Very few customers are willing to pay top $ to tradesmen. They are always looking for the cheapest price. And the vicious cycle goes on and on.....

jim_14

Yes there is a CO detector on the wall a few feet away. Come to think of it ,the vent was knocked loose and off during a renovation done to the basement area.

Im not trying to get anything out of this, to whom posed that question. I just remember this job and took interest after reading someone else's posting on flat rate pricing, etc.

I spoke to my neighbor and she said she called them and told them she thought $900 was a bit high. They basically told her too bad, quality work, etc etc.

The sad thing is that this company is well known, is supposed to have a good rep and has a few offices in 2 different counties, they are not a small outfit and certainly charge top dollar. They also have been around a few decades.


BTW... my neighbor and I no longer have service contracts with this company. I just discovered this company has a web page, they have recieved the "silver and gold medal of excellence" from Bryant heating and cooling...

maybe I should send a link of this thread to them?

jim_14

Let me clarify, "the vent was knocked off..."

What I mean is that is was easily knocked out of place when bringing materials in and out while a renovation in a room in the basement was on going. It was always like that, she never realized how loose it always was until she discovered it off while doing laundry on the weekends when work wasnt being done. Who knows how many days it was off and thank goodness noone was living down there during that time.

mp1969

$900.00

That is called rape and pillaging!

Very sad if that was done by a contractor and inspected!

MP 1969

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Bill_14

Jim

with all due respect, can we move on and get over this little bit of history. This type of thing happens in every industry all the time and the "good guys" always have to struggle with these horror stories...stories that we cannot do anything about. There is a right way and a wrong way to install a water heater. In addition, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with customers.

There is a real good chance the owner of this company has no idea that one of his people did this blotched up job. He may be too large to even know who his customer's are...it could be that his manager kept the information from him. You have to know how his internal operation works. In any event, it is history now.

If the contractor owner has been given an opportunity to learn all of the facts about the workmanship, I am surprised that he didn't send his best tech back to clean up the mess for no additional charge.

In addition, I would imagine that his price was based on a "Flat Rate" out of the pricing book for his company. If this is the case, I would assume the customer was quoted this price before the work commenced. Another question for the contractor owner.

Once again, only this contractor owner knows all the facts.

Bill_14

Jim

with all due respect, can we move on and get over this little bit of history?? This type of thing happens in every industry all the time and the "good guys" always have to struggle with these horror stories...stories that we cannot do anything about. There is a right way and a wrong way to install a water heater. In addition, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with customers.

There is a real good chance the owner of this company has no idea that one of his people did this blotched up job. He may be too large to even know who his customer's are...it could be that his manager kept the information from him. You have to know how his internal operation works. In any event, it is history now.

If the contractor owner has been given an opportunity to learn all of the facts about the workmanship, I am surprised that he didn't send his best tech back to clean up the mess for no additional charge.

In addition, I would imagine that his price was based on a "Flat Rate" out of the pricing book for his company. If this is the case, I would assume the customer was quoted this price before the work commenced. Another question for the contractor owner.

Once again, only this contractor owner knows all the facts.

Bill_14

Jim

with all due respect, can we move on and get over this little bit of history? This type of thing happens in every industry all the time and the "good guys" always have to struggle with these horror stories...stories that we cannot do anything about. There is a right way and a wrong way to install a water heater. In addition, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with customers.

There is a real good chance the owner of this company has no idea that one of his people did this blotched up job. He may be too large to even know who his customer's are...it could be that his manager kept the information from him. You have to know how his internal operation works. In any event, it is history now.

If the contractor owner has been given an opportunity to learn all of the facts about the workmanship, I am surprised that he didn't send his best tech back to clean up the mess for no additional charge.

In addition, I would imagine that his price was based on a "Flat Rate" out of the pricing book for his company. If this is the case, I would assume the customer was quoted this price before the work commenced. Another question for the contractor owner.

Once again, only this contractor owner knows all the facts.

Bill_14

Jim

with all due respect, can we move on and get over this little bit of history? This type of thing happens in every industry all the time and the "good guys" always have to struggle with these horror stories...stories that we cannot do anything about. There is a right way and a wrong way to install a water heater. In addition, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with customers, as well as the employees that represent your company.

There is a real good chance the owner of this company has no idea that one of his people did this blotched up job. He may be too large to even know who his customer's are...it could be that his manager kept the information from him. You have to know how his internal operation works. In any event, it is history now.

If the contractor owner has been given an opportunity to learn all of the facts about the workmanship, I am surprised that he didn't send his best tech back to clean up the mess for no additional charge.

In addition, I would imagine that his price was based on a "Flat Rate" out of the pricing book for his company. If this is the case, I would assume the customer was quoted this price before the work commenced. Another question for the contractor owner.

Once again, only this contractor owner knows all the facts.

Bill_14

Jim

with all due respect, can we move on and get over this little bit of history? This type of thing happens in every industry all the time and the "good guys" always have to struggle with these horror stories...stories that we cannot do anything about. There is a right way and a wrong way to install a water heater. In addition, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with customers, as well as the employees that represent your company.

There is a real good chance the owner of this company has no idea that one of his people did this blotched up job. He may be too large to even know who his customer's are...it could be that his manager kept the information from him. You have to know how his internal operation works. In any event, it is history now.

If the contractor owner has been given an opportunity to learn all of the facts about the workmanship, I am surprised that he didn't send his best tech back to clean up the mess for no additional charge.

In addition, I would imagine that his price was based on a "Flat Rate" out of the pricing book for his company. If this is the case, I would assume the customer was quoted this price before the work commenced. Another question for the contractor owner.

Once again, only this contractor owner knows all the facts.

Bill_14

Jim

with all due respect, can we move on and get over this little bit of history? This type of thing happens in every industry all the time and the "good guys" always have to struggle with these horror stories...stories that we cannot do anything about.

There is a right way and a wrong way to install a water heater. In addition, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with customers, as well as the employees that represent your company.

There is a real good chance the owner of this company has no idea that one of his people did this blotched up job. He may be too large to even know who his customer's are...it could be that his manager kept the information from him. You have to know how his internal operation works. In any event, it is history now.

If the contractor owner has been given an opportunity to learn all of the facts about the workmanship, I am surprised that he didn't send his best tech back to clean up the mess for no additional charge.

In addition, I would imagine that his price was based on a "Flat Rate" out of the pricing book for his company. If this is the case, I would assume the customer was quoted this price before the work commenced. Another question for the contractor owner.

Once again, only this contractor owner knows all the facts.

Bill_14

Jim

with all due respect, can we move on and get over this little bit of history? This type of thing happens in every industry all the time and the "good guys" always have to struggle with these horror stories...stories that we cannot do anything about.

There is a right way and a wrong way to install a water heater. In addition, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with customers, as well as the employees that represent your company.

There is a real good chance the owner of this company has no idea that one of his people did this blotched up job. He may be too large to even know who his customer's are...it could be that his manager kept the information from him. It could be that only the installing tech knows what is going on because others never got involved. You have to know how his internal operation works. In any event, it is history now.

If the contractor owner has been given an opportunity to learn all of the facts about the workmanship, I am surprised that he didn't send his best tech back to clean up the mess for no additional charge.

In addition, I would imagine that his price was based on a "Flat Rate" out of the pricing book for his company. If this is the case, I would assume the customer was quoted this price before the work commenced. Another question for the contractor owner.

Once again, only this contractor owner knows all the facts.

Bill_14

Jim

with all due respect, can we move on and get over this little bit of history? This type of thing happens in every industry all the time and the "good guys" always have to struggle with these horror stories...stories that we cannot do anything about.

There is a right way and a wrong way to install a water heater. In addition, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with customers, as well as the employees that represent your company.

There is a real good chance the owner of this company has no idea that one of his people did this blotched up job. He may be too large to even know who his customer's are...it could be that his manager kept the information from him. It could be that only the installing tech knows what is going on because others never got involved. You have to know how his internal operation works. In any event, it is history now.

If the contractor owner has been given an opportunity to learn all of the facts about the workmanship, I am surprised that he didn't send his best tech back to clean up the mess for no additional charge (if he knew it was a mess).

In addition, I would imagine that his price was based on a "Flat Rate" out of the pricing book for his company. If this is the case, I would assume the customer was quoted this price before the work commenced. Another question for the contractor owner. The point to remember is that we cannot question the price, because we simply are not in this guys shoes. However, regardless of the price, the workmanship and the installation has to be top-notch.

Once again, only this contractor owner knows all the facts about his company operations.

Bill

jim_14

Bill,

I know theres nothing that anybody can do now. But at a minimum she knows she was right when called to question the charges. Remember she was in the hospital when this was done, it was cold and in the winter, she had a service contract with this company ,things were hectic at that time and nobody was going to start asking questions, her young adult kids had no idea on pricing HWH,s ,they just trusted this company, I mean their stickers are on the equipment.

Finally, she didnt know there was a workmanship issue here, all she knew is that it looked the same as before.I guess she assumed that is how it is supposed to be done. Its just the size of the bill she got and when compared to other homeowners with similar houses and setups who had HWH's replaced it just didnt feel right.

Too bad this site and the internet as we know it wasnt around back then. At least she would have had some ground to stand on and had them come back and do the right thing.

Im not trying to disparage you guys or lay blame on anybody, I just thought this would be a good question to ask especially with the ability to post pictures. Imagine the responses if their were no pictures??? this subject is getting old anyway so we can get off it, thanks to everybody for their responses.

Jim

Paul Cooke

Let us know

Jim

Please post a picture when your neighbor has the problem vent repaired.

jim_14

I dont think she will have it repaired. Its worked all this time like that. She has to manually fill the boiler thats located right next to it as well as do laundry down there so she can see if it ever comes off and thats only happened once. I know it sounds silly but its hard to convince somebody when theres nothing going wrong with it now and the CO detector has not gone off. BTW the CO detector is new.

I am assuming the vent isnt properly pitched b/c is slopes down a bit before going up and joing the vent from the boiler before going into the chimney???

Bill_14

You are a very good neighbor Jim

and it is good that you are helping this lady...I wish I could also. It is just that most of us see and hear this type of stuff all the time. We get calls from lawyers wanting expert opinions, we get calls from our competitor's customers wanting "check" information, and so on.

Each case is always a little different and the only fair way to distinguish between right and wrong is to see the problem and interview both sides. You just cannot throw out information to people without knowing the facts, especially over the Internet.

If you sent this picture to me identifying that the installation was completed by my company, I can assure you that we would have everything replaced and/or repaired correctly before the work day was over.

Hopefully, the owner of this company is reading along with these threads and will do whatever is right.

Good luck and thanks again for the care and concern for your neighbor. By the way, the water heater vent DOES need to be cleaned up and installed correctly in a safe manner. By the way, I wonder what the City Plumbing Inspector had to say about this installation...obviously the City approved the work.

Bill

jim_14

actually nobody from the city ever inspected this work. In fact Ive never heard of anybody having a city inspector come in for a boiler or HWH. And this is in NYC, maybe its only required for new homes??