Old Kriebel steam system - boiler replacement

Unknown

We decided to be wise on this one , we hired outside help to remove the boiler . I was there to disconnect the system from the boiler . I saw it cracked in 2 spots on the top where the draw rods are connected . The last pic is of the contractor - him and his 2 partners saved me from a sore back . We are going to be installing a Burnham V9A 6 section boiler , starting Monday .

Unknown

We found the old Kriebel vent disconnected

And a main vent in its place . We also found a rogue wet return . Im gonna have to track it down and see what type of rads are hooked to it . Is there a proper replacement for this Kriebel vent , other than a main vent ? Im kinda leery of trying to hook in the old vent - Im pretty sure its toast . Thanks to Dan and his Lost Art of Steam Heating book for pointing out this type of system . Hey Dan , if you want it for your museum , just say the word .

Unknown

It was once connected to this

We have 2 dry returns going into this main trap and vent . The other pic is the same thing up close .

jalcoplumb_2

Ron here is a...

print form an original Kriebel install from a house I had the pleasure of working on in Princeton, NJ. The system is still running. It had been converted to gas a long time ago. The coal bin still has coal and the shovel in it.

Check out how they wanted the take-off for a boiler w/two connections. Dan "What's up with that?"

I don't know how big the pic will be but I had to scan the print in two parts I even have the original spec on the system from Krieble.

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Mark Hunt

RON!!!!!!!


What are you gonna do with all tha room!!!!!!

You are usually trying to stuff 50 lbs of ....uhh.....stuff in a 2 lb bag!!!

At least your back will thank you!

Make sure to post after pics!!!!

Mark H

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ScottMP

Ron

I love the old homes where they would put a railing around the boiler. Could you see putting that in your bid now ??

Marks right you have way top much room on this job.

Can't wait to see the pictures even with the copper return I know it will look great .

Scott

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Steamhead

I think that's an old Ideal boiler

possibly a Redflash or maybe a Sectional or Water-Tube.

That Gorton #1 vent is almost certainly too small for the system- from the looks of the boiler it's probably big enough for a pair of Gorton #2 vents. But don't dismiss the Kriebel vent just yet. That thing is adjustable via a hand wheel on one end.

How big is that system? Are there any vents on the steam mains?

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Unknown

I think I might go with steel returns

on this job . We try to use it on 2 inch returns or bigger . Hey , if I use copper I will just paint it black , maybe dip some white paint around the joints to look like Teflon . Naa , we got one of those old , big power threaders , I mean the power turners that you use the threader with - were gonna keep it black .

We have someone filling in the pit with cement - makes my life alot easier . And the new water line is gonna be within 2 inches of the old boiler's . Matter of fact , the railing wont need to be there anymore . The trickiest part of the whole job is gonna be finding a smoke pipe reducer for that size . The chimney is in another room and an elbow is buried in the wall near the boiler . Might need our duct guy to build one . Thanks Scott .

tim from Reed Wright

kriebel trap

That is very similar to a hoffman differential loop that we just worked on, here in seattle we see very few of those but it was interesting

DanHolohan

Thanks, Ron

We've got one of those already. A thing of beauty!

Unknown

That is extremely helpful

It shows me where the Kriebel vent is supposed to be piped . With that pic and the diagrams of this system in Dan's book , I havent seen the master trap and vent ? , like the one on my job . But it does have the Kriebel name on it , and I am not gonna touch it , except to run a new return pipe down from it . Would you happen to have a pic of the steam boiler you worked on ? The old boiler we removed had 3 boiler takeoffs - and 2 of them were into the header in the wrong spots . The new boiler requires only one takeoff - makes it much easier . The last time I twinned in two - 4 inch headers , it took me all day to line them up . Drop headers from now on with the big pipes . Thank you very much Jalcoplumb

Unknown

The system is BIG

I made a quick tour of the house , but forgot to count up the radiators . But there must be around 30 to 40 of them , all built ins , all cast iron , quite a few on the 1st floor are floor convectors . Im going to take some pics of the rads and the special vlaves and return ells . I also didnt get a look at the ends of the mains , I will do that Monday . We are going to change the vent to a bigger one , but I think I might try your suggestion first and see if that crazy trombone looking Kriebel vent still works . Is there any special way to adjust the knob ? Is it supposed to be silent or can you hear air escaping through it ? Thanks alot Steamhead .

Unknown

The system is BIG

I made a quick tour of the house , but forgot to count up the radiators . But there must be around 30 to 40 of them , all built ins , all cast iron , quite a few on the 1st floor are floor convectors . Im going to take some pics of the rads and the special vlaves and return ells . I also didnt get a look at the ends of the mains , I will do that Monday . We are going to change the vent to a bigger one , but I think I might try your suggestion first and see if that crazy trombone looking Kriebel vent still works . Is there any special way to adjust the knob ? Is it supposed to be silent or can you hear air escaping through it ? Thanks alot Steamhead .

Unknown

No problem Dan

Steamhead gave me the idea of trying to use it over . Im probably going to put it back in with a valve , and tee in the bigger main vents with a valve to switch over if the Kriebel vent isnt working . I am assuming that it isnt good to use both type of vents at once ? Thanks Dan .

Unknown

We also see very few

of these systems on Long Island . But I used to work in NYC , and I remember seeing all these fancy looking pieces of equpment back then - I was still a rookie and had no clue what they did . Hell , if it wasnt for Dans book , I'd still be lost on anything other than one pipe steam .

Unknown

Yes , the elbow room is fantastic

Getting the boiler into the basement is another story . The staircase is steep and theres a crazy turn at the bottom . But there will be no more pit to fall into - its being fiiled with cement . Im guessing and hoping this will be a 3 day job from Monday . Im gonna post some progress pics along the way - hopefully one pic wont be me crushed under the back section . Thanks Mark .

Steamhead

Shouldn't be a problem

to use both the old Kriebel and new Gorton #2 vents together. The only thing to remember is that the Gortons have floats in them to close against water, and the Kriebel does not. But I think that "master trap" is really a "float trap/air eliminator" which would close against water anyway. If you're using a Vaporstat that tops out at 1 PSI (or two such units if code requires on a system that size) water shouldn't back up that far.

Regarding the header with takeoffs in the wrong place- you could get away with that in the old days, since those old boilers had big steam chests to separate water and steam. With a newer boiler the header configuration is much more critical.

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Unknown

Alright

Ok , since the job has mostly been left in my hands , Im gonna try to work both vents . Ive been asking to use vaporstats on all our steam boilers , and either noone wants to listen or noone knows what it is - including our supply houses . I will ask again to use one on this job and a regular PA404 as a backup . I can see how having the header pipes teed in the wrong place wouldnt pose a problem on this boiler - it probably took more than an hour to get it to push steam . Thanks again Steamhead - Im probably gonna pick your brain some more as the job goes on , if you dont mind - youre one of the only guys out there that knows the stuff of the dead guys . Are you like John Edwards the psychic - and channel old man Kriebel ? Take care .

jalcoplumb_2

I will post a

thread w/the specs and prints I have.

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Steamhead

Channeling Mr. Kriebel

Naah, I have to do it the hard way, just like everyone else. The only way to get into the heads of the Dead Men is to read the Dead Men's Books. Also Dan's books- and never be afraid of what might be in that next basement. I don't think there's anything in an old basement that we Wallheads can't figure out.

I just ordered a 1927 book on troubleshooting heating systems. I'm sure there's some Vapor stuff in there- can't wait to get it.

BTW- where is this job located?

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Unknown

The job is in Locust Valley

in Nassau County , on Long Island . We had a company come in on Saturday to fill the pit the boiler was in . I hope it cured quick - or they used a fast setting mix . We're starting the install tomorrow . Come on down - or I should say come on up , and join in on the fun . I'll even throw in a slice or 2 of pizza .

Steamhead

Tempting Offer

but we have a busy week coming. Maybe we can hook up when I come up to look in on Noel and Mad Dog.

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