Timmie and others...Anticipator settings....Boilerpro

Steamhead

but since I'm way over on the East Coast, this'll have to do ;-)

The one thing I try to do on every system I work on is to MEASURE THE THERMOSTAT CURRENT. I've found a few that were different enough from what the manufacturer specified as to really throw off the cycle lengths.

I usually start from the thermostat current rating/measurement and go from there. On steam or vapor, if the system heats slowly I first check the venting, then the firing rate and insulation. On gravity hot water systems I've found that insulating the flow mains and leaving the returns bare can speed circulation, as it maintains a greater temperature difference between flow and return.

I'm reluctant to increase the cycle length to compensate for a slow-heating system, because this wastes fuel. I always try to find the cause of the sluggishness rather than Band-Aid it. Many times, when the system is straightened out, I can reduce the firing rate and save the owner even more fuel, reducing short-cycling in the process.

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Boilerpro

Caught your response to my post

About anticipoator settings. I should have stated that those numbers were starting points. On converted gravity systems I've found setting the anticipator as high as possible usually works if the boiler is sized to the load and the whole system is one zone. I found that I get cycles of about 20 minutes on and 35 off on typical winter days (20 to 25 F outside, 70 inside) this way and still get nice steady indoor temps (system temp only changes about 15 to 20 degrees during cycle). From the pattern I've seen, though, most boilers in these system about 50 to 70 percent bigger than load...my own is 350% right now due thermal upgrades to my home.... with most sized to the radiation. Would you believe that one of my local distributers has told me that the W-M rep has told them to size hot water boilers to the radiation? Major CYA! With these oversized boilers I imagine you will need shorter firing times to maintain steady temps, hence lower anticipator settings.

Twas wondering on the 3 story steam systems you mentioned. Did a longer anticipator setting help? ARE the risers vented? Do you really need more pressure or just a longer on time or more venting? I bet Steamhead would like to get his hands on those systems.

Boilerpro

Unknown

In the real world of the inner city slums

with low income tenants and absentee landlords it was and still is a major project just to give them heat. No one wants to fix anything so you do the best you can. We actually counted these one time and discovered we had 3,700 steam boilers on our lines in the inner city ghetto area. Only 127 had owner occupied homes or 3 tenant dwellings owner occupied.

We did the best we could with what we had.

As far as the steam boilers almost all of them were converted coal boilers with atmospheric gas conversion burners which were Powerpile systems using a TS86 thermostat with a fixed anticpator as most self generating systems have. Some of them were converted oil using a Economite E-20 burner. Midco who made E-20 burners and Tom Roche a combustion engineer (one of the most talented people I ever worked with) of TC Roche Associates had worked out the setting of anticpator to .8 on those burners. This was done after a lot of time spent working these systems to the best possible cycle to insure adequate heat to these poor people.

Many a night I went home frustrated from not being able to refurbish these old systems. Slowly but surely they are being replaced with design gas boilers. What is interesting many of the systems do not get refurbished, they just put in a new boiler. A lot of time I would take the vents and soak them in vinegar and water to at least get them to work and vent the radiators. I lost count of how many radiators we had to shim up to get them to pitch back toward the valve.

When we did a conversion we spent sometimes three or four days just sealing and repairing the boilers. We did have a policy that at the conclusion of installing a conversion burner we had to work with it until we had a minimum of 75% combustion efficiency.

There was no maintenance done on any of these boilers. The gas company did not do any maintenance. We sold a service agreement or rented the burners.

I worked that route for 10 years with the drug dealers, hookers, gangs, rats etc. Tough neighborhoods, the last thing anyone wanted to do was spend money or time on boiler repairs.

I also have found that it is never a good idea to underfire a steam boiler. We always fired the boiler to its maximum. The concern was relative to latent heat, needing that 970 BTU's per lb of water in additon to 1 BTU per lb for conventional heating of water to 212 degrees and then needing to reach vaporization from 212 degree water to 212 degrees steam.

Bob W._2

Anticipator setting...

Dave, the anticipator setting on my thermostat is at the lowest setting, about .1. Will increasing it lengthen the firing time of the boiler? Currently the boiler only runs about 5 minutes and I'd like that a little longer. What do you suggest for a new setting? The temp hold rock steady at 70, which is nice, but I would like to get a little more steady state efficiency. AND, I will contact you again some day about your theory of sizing steam to heat loss plus piping, not to radiation plus piping. Got to do something about these bills. $250 bill arrived today for October - ouch!! Thanks.

Bob W._2

Correction..

Dave, I had archived a reply you gave to an earlier inquiry on this. Got the answer. Thanks.

Unknown

What is the primary control on your boiler

and what is its amperage draw? Moving the anticpator up toward 1.2 will put less heat on the coil and give a longer cycle. Ideally most systems should cycle 6 times per hour at 50% of heating load. If it is high or mid efficiency it should cycle 3 times per hour.

Boilerpro

Bob W's system is steam

serving a three story system in FRIGID Minnesota...If I remember right and is one pipe.

Boilerpro