Steam 2-pipe problem - no heat

Dave_3

Apartment building with low pressure steam heat...Thw owner says it has not heated properly in years. It is a 2-pipe syet, with radiators in each apartment. There is a low wet return that empties into a receiver after going through a main steam trap. The condensate return from the radiators is getting no condensate water. It ties into the low return also before the steam trap. I think return line should be tied in after the steam trap. Boiler working fine. Is this assumption correct about the return line position?

Joe at krahezfoo@aol.com

To daves from joe

Your description of the job mentions a main steam trap in the return. If I read you you right, I think you are describing a master trap; which is a cheap way out of replacing the traps at the individual radiators. That is not the right way to do the job, and only compounds the problem down the line. Dan's "lost Art Of Steam Heating" goes into detail about this problem; will give you some insight into what is happening in the system. Well worth the price. Pipe tight, do it right! Joe.

Steamhead

That may be an old Vapor system

if it has both dry (high) and wet (low) returns.

There should not be a trap on the return line- only at the end of the steam main and at each radiator.

Has there always been a pump on the return? If it was added after the system was installed, it may not be needed. Just ask Noel about the Vapor systems at the college he used to work for.....

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Paul_4

Joe's got it right

Check out Dan's book. Master traps can cause many problems in wet returns. Check all the thermostatic traps at all the radiators while the system is off. Don't miss ANY of them. If steam gets past a broken trap, it enters the condensate lines. Once there, it can travel back up toward a radiator in the wrong direction and damage the working traps. Make sure they are all working before you turn the system back on. Dan's book is filled with all sorts of tips such as this one.

Joe at krahezfoo@aol.com

To Dave, Steamhead, and Paul. No heat problem.

I don't know how to use this computer well enough to generate a diagram; but give me some time and my children; who are computer literate; and I will be able to communicate to others who are linked to cyberspace. It's hard to diagnose a problem when you cannot see it firsthand, and sometimes it looks at you and says " Here's the problem dummy, just open your eyes and solve the problem." The simple things seem to bite us in the butt. Dave should make a diagram of the steam system, especially of how the returns are tied together and sit back and analyze what is happening in the system. Decide what is a wet return and what is a dry return. Over the years many people have changed out equipment and systems without realizing what they have done. I've seen vapor/vacuum systems that have the pumps turned off because the janitor did not want the pump to run all the time. Have to do your homework and look around and ask questions on the job. When all else fails, ask Dan, and hope Notre Dame won the last game! Hope this helps! Pipe Tight! Do it right!

DanHolohan

I've got a feeling

that the air can't get out of the system because of the way the return pipe and master trap are configured. Walk it though from the header to the pump and ask yourself, "If I were air, could I get out?"

Where there is air, steam will not go.

Joe at krahezfoo@aol.com

To Dan from Joe.

Guess I need a diagram of the system to visualize the problem. Like you taught us, draw it out and take measurements. When I put it on paper, I can see how air can get trapped and not vent. Too many times contractors converta steam system without realizing the end results of their actions; and we get called in to make the problem go away. I always hear that they paid good money for the system and it doesn't work; so now we are the bad guys for suggesting what they have to do to make it work. I say that if you don't want to do it right and make it work because it will cost you some dollars; then go back to the initial installing contractor and make him come back and do it right! Pipe tight, do it right!