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A Radiant Story SE
Steve Ebels
Member Posts: 904
We are about 90% complete on a church addition and remodel job. I just have to share this..... spread the radiant heat gospel, so to speak. I'll post pics tomorrow if I remember the camera.
The job consists of a two floor addition with 2100 sq ft per floor. This is heated with panel radiators. The existing part of the church retains the forced air duct system, but is now connected to a single airhandler instead of the two furnaces that serviced this area previously. The whole building is now heated by a single Vitorond 200 firing at about 200K btu's.
That's enough for the technical side for now, this story is about the different feel of radiant type heat. We were wrapping up for the day when the infamous "Andrew the furnace launcher" came and said the pastor wanted to know why it was so hot in the new part of the building. I went to talk with him and find out what he was refering to. I found him and several other members of the church standing in the new fellowship hall. I asked if they needed to know how to turn down the heat. (all TRV's) They said that they didn't see the need to have the fellowship hall at 75*. I couldn't help but smiling. I went to the truck and came back with my Fluke to check the actual air temp. It measured 68.2*F. This brought a number of "what the....." and "why does it........" type comments and a look of disbelief on a number of faces. I explained that the radiators give of part of their heat output as convective type heat and part as radiant, noting that the radiant part is the difference that they feel. I then asked them to come to the old part of church with me and tell me what the temp felt like in there. Walking from one part to the other the "feel" of the building was immediately apparent. Waving the trusty Fluke through the air revealed a temp of 65.8*F. I didn't show them the temp, but asked what they thought the temp was. Replies varied from 60 to 66. To make a long story short, they could not believe how different the 2.5 degrees felt.
My preaching was not in vain.
A new group of "believers" were gathered into the radiant fold today in Aetna, Michigan.
OK, here's the technical stuff. Vitorond 200 firing at 197,000 btu's, net stack temp of 294.8*, comb eff, 88.6*, (no condensation in boiler at this eff.) draft -.02wc", CO 3ppm, CO2 11.8%, no smoke, zero,nada,zip,nothing. Operating on full reset with the 1.6* curve shifted up 5. Water temp this morning at 25* ambient averaged 140*. Air handler has its own 15-42 Grundfos pump and relay operating off two programmable stats, each tied to its corresponding zone damper. The 26-64 Grundfos you see in the pics is feeding 16 panel rads, each with its own Oventrop TRV. In effect 16 zones. The manifolds are piped reverse return, which you can see in the pics (man1 and man2) Supply from pump hits man1 and feeds through to man2. The return starts at man1, loops to man2 then back to boiler room. Longest pipe run is about 330 ft.
The flue temp with the old Janitrol furnace was an eyepopping 823*F. The other newer oil furnace, which was already gone when I took the pics, was an Olsen set up with a 1.00 gph firing rate serving a load of about 40,000 btu's according to the heat loss. Can we say "short cycle" and "overshoot". The architect wanted to leave the 2 existing furnaces in place and install 2 more LP fired 90% units with the required duct system, to serve the basement and main floor of the new addition. Can we say "DUH!!!"
It works great. Everyone is happy. They have a low maint. system that will last for decades with little service required.
The job consists of a two floor addition with 2100 sq ft per floor. This is heated with panel radiators. The existing part of the church retains the forced air duct system, but is now connected to a single airhandler instead of the two furnaces that serviced this area previously. The whole building is now heated by a single Vitorond 200 firing at about 200K btu's.
That's enough for the technical side for now, this story is about the different feel of radiant type heat. We were wrapping up for the day when the infamous "Andrew the furnace launcher" came and said the pastor wanted to know why it was so hot in the new part of the building. I went to talk with him and find out what he was refering to. I found him and several other members of the church standing in the new fellowship hall. I asked if they needed to know how to turn down the heat. (all TRV's) They said that they didn't see the need to have the fellowship hall at 75*. I couldn't help but smiling. I went to the truck and came back with my Fluke to check the actual air temp. It measured 68.2*F. This brought a number of "what the....." and "why does it........" type comments and a look of disbelief on a number of faces. I explained that the radiators give of part of their heat output as convective type heat and part as radiant, noting that the radiant part is the difference that they feel. I then asked them to come to the old part of church with me and tell me what the temp felt like in there. Walking from one part to the other the "feel" of the building was immediately apparent. Waving the trusty Fluke through the air revealed a temp of 65.8*F. I didn't show them the temp, but asked what they thought the temp was. Replies varied from 60 to 66. To make a long story short, they could not believe how different the 2.5 degrees felt.
My preaching was not in vain.
A new group of "believers" were gathered into the radiant fold today in Aetna, Michigan.
OK, here's the technical stuff. Vitorond 200 firing at 197,000 btu's, net stack temp of 294.8*, comb eff, 88.6*, (no condensation in boiler at this eff.) draft -.02wc", CO 3ppm, CO2 11.8%, no smoke, zero,nada,zip,nothing. Operating on full reset with the 1.6* curve shifted up 5. Water temp this morning at 25* ambient averaged 140*. Air handler has its own 15-42 Grundfos pump and relay operating off two programmable stats, each tied to its corresponding zone damper. The 26-64 Grundfos you see in the pics is feeding 16 panel rads, each with its own Oventrop TRV. In effect 16 zones. The manifolds are piped reverse return, which you can see in the pics (man1 and man2) Supply from pump hits man1 and feeds through to man2. The return starts at man1, loops to man2 then back to boiler room. Longest pipe run is about 330 ft.
The flue temp with the old Janitrol furnace was an eyepopping 823*F. The other newer oil furnace, which was already gone when I took the pics, was an Olsen set up with a 1.00 gph firing rate serving a load of about 40,000 btu's according to the heat loss. Can we say "short cycle" and "overshoot". The architect wanted to leave the 2 existing furnaces in place and install 2 more LP fired 90% units with the required duct system, to serve the basement and main floor of the new addition. Can we say "DUH!!!"
It works great. Everyone is happy. They have a low maint. system that will last for decades with little service required.
0
Comments
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Amen
Great story Steve.
I have 2 houses next to each other, 1 with c/i rad. at 72* and 1 with radiant at 68*. My wife always remarks "it's so much warmer in the house with the radiant" .
al0 -
First post
Is updated with pics and tekkie type stuff. What do you think of it??0 -
Amen...!!
Good job and great sermon to the pastor.
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