munchkin land- scott

ScottMP

Home of the Munchkin. I finally got a chance to here and see the new changes everyone has been talking about. These guys are doing a great job for such a small company. The outdoor reset and multipy boiler applications are going to change alot of thinking going on in the industry right know. Anybody who wants to say " why can't American companys do new stuff " , need to talk to these guys.

The Vision two and three controls are going to change the industry.

Interesting also to hear there ideas for a 98 effeciency OIL boiler !!

I guess the big boys are to stuck in the old ways, and it takes a young "pup" to look at things differently.

Good Job Guys

Scott

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Doug_3

How Long Until............

.........the 98 efficiency oil boiler is here?

Paul Rohrs_2

Peerless Pinnacle

I have been selling the Peerless Pinnacle here in Nebraska at the wholesale level. We are enjoying tremendous response from our contractors. I am wondering if Peerless will just buy out Munchkin? It is a tremendous product, and we are looking forward to the additional larger models coming out.

Paul

Duncan_2

Hey Scott....

How is the burner modulation for the Munchkin controlled?

Most modulating boilers I've seen vary the flame in response to system water temperature, measured by supply and/or return temps.

Is there a way to modulate the burner based on outdoor temperature?

ScottMP

Duncan

The munchkin as I understand it does just that. By using thermistors it checks the supply and return temps and modulate the boiler according to the differently that can be adjusted. The O/D reset will adjust the operating limit.

The vision one control will have the O/D reset and domestic priority

The Vision two control will run four different temps, set a different curve for each temp and operate three way mixing valves thru the control. The controls will also be allowed to be ganged together to allow up to 32 different temps off one boiler ( not sure why that would be needed, but it would be possible ).

These controls will also monitor the output of different zones and allow you to go back and check which zone has been using what amount of BTU's.

You should see the 300,000 btu unit they are working on.

This stuff is just really exciting.

Scott

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Walt

OD Reset - Why

> The munchkin as I understand it does just that.

> By using thermistors it checks the supply and

> return temps and modulate the boiler according to

> the differently that can be adjusted. The O/D

> reset will adjust the operating limit.

>

> The

> vision one control will have the O/D reset and

> domestic priority

>

> The Vision two control will

> run four different temps, set a different curve

> for each temp and operate three way mixing valves

> thru the control. The controls will also be

> allowed to be ganged together to allow up to 32

> different temps off one boiler ( not sure why

> that would be needed, but it would be possible

> ).

>

> These controls will also monitor the output

> of different zones and allow you to go back and

> check which zone has been using what amount of

> BTU's.

>

> You should see the 300,000 btu unit

> they are working on.

>

> This stuff is just

> really exciting.

>

> Scott

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 237&Step=30"_To Learn More About This Contractor,

> Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A

> Contractor"_/A_

Walt

OD Reset - Why?

I still don't get why OD reset is necessary on a boiler that heats water based on the difference between supply and return. On a warm day wouldn't the difference between supply and return if the suppy were 180 be very little and therefore not cause the boiler to fire. I would think the supply temp and return temp would just continue to creep down together until there was a difference that is large enough to cause the boiler to fire. By adjusting off of heat loss this way wouldn't you get the same effect as outdoor reset?

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Two good reasons for internal reset

In a simple system with thermostat (digital) control: During moderate weather, the unit will have little/no modulation because it's trying to heat to a temp higher than possible since the t-stat will shut it down before it reaches high limit anyway. Think of it--it will start cool with a high delta t, so the burner will fire fully. It's trying to reach the ultimate high limit (needed only on the coldest day) so it keeps going full blast. The t-stat is satisfied before this happens, the boiler burner shuts down and the process continues until it gets really cold.

So yes, it will sort of reset itself, but not in the best way. Of itself this doesn't matter too much--other than a bit more frequent cycling/greater space temp fluctuation than if the burner modulates at lower temp. BUT, it's quite likely the boiler will sometimes/often needlessly heat higher than necessary (above condensing) where it is less efficient.


In a constant circulation system the internal reset is VERY nice. Unless the system is designed to operate below condensing at ALL times, you have to set the high limit above condensing and take other measures to keep the temp down in the mains. The boiler itself is still operating in non-condensing mode (even though it may be modulating.) Even in high-mass radiant where temps below condensing are always required, I believe that the lower the return temp, the more you condense and the more efficiency you wring from the boiler.

With both you can change things somewhat by adjusting the cut in/cut out temp, but this is quite crude compared to:

Both reset and modulation (as well as some REALLY good programming). The unit should be able to do some VERY COOL THINGS!

It should strive for "constant delivery mode" where the level of modulation just maintains a delta t (from a "curve" it "learns" based on different supply/return temps) WHILE changing the base supply temp with outside temp. If done REALLY well, it will interpret a sudden change in delta t as a change in comfort requirement. If it has rapidly increased, it should zoom correspondingly towards full fire. If it has rapidly decreased, it should plummet similarly.