Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
BIG (me)
Mark Eatherton1
Member Posts: 2,542
We finally got started with the monster snowmelt project. I and my 2 man crew have been living in the town of Silverthorne for going on 3 weeks now. The first week we roughed in the dock snowmelt tubing. The second week, we finished the rough in and did the supply and return piping to the grid. This last week (week cut short by moms funeral) we began roughing in the 4" schedule 40 Victaulic supply and return lines. If necessity is the mother of invention, I'm the childs father...
If you've never had the opportunity to wrestle with 21 foot lengths of sched 40 steel pipe 20 foot of the deck, you haven't lived. To add to the fun, the other trades idea of a critical path method is "On your marks, get set, GO!!!" Last one in is a rotten egg... Yeah, sure, we had coordination meetings discussing who had dibs on what vertical space (6 feet) above the ceiling, and of course, they decided that I should hold my pipes as high as possible. It doesn't really matter whether your 14 feet off the deck or 20, it requires the same equipment to get it there. Only problem was, we couldn't install anything until the cement floor was poured. Once it was poured, all the other trades (HVAC, fire protection, communincations, security etc..) ALL jump on the slab and started installing their equipment. Ever tried to parallel park a 225 pound, 21 foot piece of steel pipe 20 foot off the floor between hanging duct work AND fire protection lines? Trust me when I tell you it puts ALL of your skills to task.
I had pre installed all of my hangers for the 350 feet of run between the snowmelt boiler room and the area at the front of the store being served by the boiler room while the other guys were putting the tube down in the back dock area. It definatley helps to use a laser at that point. The actual installation of the pipe was a breeze, with the exception of "guiding" it through the other crafts handy work. Even they were amazed at my bus parking skills. My mom would have been proud. Anyway, we installed most of our 4" pipes, along with 2 pairs of mongo (6'x6'x6') expansion joints. I'm very proud of my guys for their adapting to the tasks at hand. Prior to this job, 1-1/2" pipe was the biggest pipe they'd seen.
One of my inventions was a back saver. The man/equipment lifts we use are about 7 foot tall, and getting the pipe from the ground to the top of the lift can kill your back. So we rented an equipment hoist, like a duct hoist, except that it doesn't have forks long enough to drop the pipe on top of the man/equipment lift, and it's legs won't go under the lift, so you still end up having to carry the pipe overhead from the hoist to the lift. So, my first invention was a set up of ropes and bungee cords. We call it the pipe sling shot. We lift the pipes to a proper loading height using the hoist, and place it in ropes hung from the ceiling. The ropes are tensioned to the outside ends of the pipes using bungee cords tied to the base of support columns. The pipe is lowered into the slings while pulling the slings towards the center of the pipes against the bungee cords. This is tough to describe on paper. Anyway, I pull under the hanging pipe with my lift, lift it up to hold the pipe and the bungee cords pull the sling ropes back out of the way so I can lower the the rig with the pipe resting on the rack and transport it to the final place where we use the lift to lift it to its final resting spot. One man can load his own pipes using this equipment.
One of the other tradesmen (plumber) thought I was setting up a circus. I told him that we were holding trials at night for people who wanted to join the "Cirque Du Silvethorne" circus act during the evening hours.
When he finally saw what the device did, he came over and asked me if it would be okay if he used the device for loading his pipe on his rig. Of course it's OKay, thats what trade cooperation is all about!
The next invention had to do with a need for a pipe rack that would allow the pipe to roll while being grooved. I know there are adjustable height roller bearing racks available, and I have some on order, but that doesn't do me any good for the next week and a half. SO a quick trip to the Hopeless Depot and a few bucks later and VIOLA, using casters and 4 x 8 sheet of 3/4" plywood I made my own work table complete with a rolling rack and chop saw. Again, the other pipe trades thought we were crazy until they saw how well it worked, and I'd bet a box of donuts that they all show up with something similar come Monday morning.
Anyway, the job has been great fun, and I'll keep posting pictures as it progresses.
Happy Big Pipe Hydronicing from the heart of the Rockies!
ME
<A HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=88&Step=30">To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"</A>
If you've never had the opportunity to wrestle with 21 foot lengths of sched 40 steel pipe 20 foot of the deck, you haven't lived. To add to the fun, the other trades idea of a critical path method is "On your marks, get set, GO!!!" Last one in is a rotten egg... Yeah, sure, we had coordination meetings discussing who had dibs on what vertical space (6 feet) above the ceiling, and of course, they decided that I should hold my pipes as high as possible. It doesn't really matter whether your 14 feet off the deck or 20, it requires the same equipment to get it there. Only problem was, we couldn't install anything until the cement floor was poured. Once it was poured, all the other trades (HVAC, fire protection, communincations, security etc..) ALL jump on the slab and started installing their equipment. Ever tried to parallel park a 225 pound, 21 foot piece of steel pipe 20 foot off the floor between hanging duct work AND fire protection lines? Trust me when I tell you it puts ALL of your skills to task.
I had pre installed all of my hangers for the 350 feet of run between the snowmelt boiler room and the area at the front of the store being served by the boiler room while the other guys were putting the tube down in the back dock area. It definatley helps to use a laser at that point. The actual installation of the pipe was a breeze, with the exception of "guiding" it through the other crafts handy work. Even they were amazed at my bus parking skills. My mom would have been proud. Anyway, we installed most of our 4" pipes, along with 2 pairs of mongo (6'x6'x6') expansion joints. I'm very proud of my guys for their adapting to the tasks at hand. Prior to this job, 1-1/2" pipe was the biggest pipe they'd seen.
One of my inventions was a back saver. The man/equipment lifts we use are about 7 foot tall, and getting the pipe from the ground to the top of the lift can kill your back. So we rented an equipment hoist, like a duct hoist, except that it doesn't have forks long enough to drop the pipe on top of the man/equipment lift, and it's legs won't go under the lift, so you still end up having to carry the pipe overhead from the hoist to the lift. So, my first invention was a set up of ropes and bungee cords. We call it the pipe sling shot. We lift the pipes to a proper loading height using the hoist, and place it in ropes hung from the ceiling. The ropes are tensioned to the outside ends of the pipes using bungee cords tied to the base of support columns. The pipe is lowered into the slings while pulling the slings towards the center of the pipes against the bungee cords. This is tough to describe on paper. Anyway, I pull under the hanging pipe with my lift, lift it up to hold the pipe and the bungee cords pull the sling ropes back out of the way so I can lower the the rig with the pipe resting on the rack and transport it to the final place where we use the lift to lift it to its final resting spot. One man can load his own pipes using this equipment.
One of the other tradesmen (plumber) thought I was setting up a circus. I told him that we were holding trials at night for people who wanted to join the "Cirque Du Silvethorne" circus act during the evening hours.
When he finally saw what the device did, he came over and asked me if it would be okay if he used the device for loading his pipe on his rig. Of course it's OKay, thats what trade cooperation is all about!
The next invention had to do with a need for a pipe rack that would allow the pipe to roll while being grooved. I know there are adjustable height roller bearing racks available, and I have some on order, but that doesn't do me any good for the next week and a half. SO a quick trip to the Hopeless Depot and a few bucks later and VIOLA, using casters and 4 x 8 sheet of 3/4" plywood I made my own work table complete with a rolling rack and chop saw. Again, the other pipe trades thought we were crazy until they saw how well it worked, and I'd bet a box of donuts that they all show up with something similar come Monday morning.
Anyway, the job has been great fun, and I'll keep posting pictures as it progresses.
Happy Big Pipe Hydronicing from the heart of the Rockies!
ME
<A HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=88&Step=30">To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"</A>
0
Comments
-
4\"seems kind of small
sure you'll get flow? seriously, I work with pipe that size a little more than i care to. we have a genie lift that has long forks that we use to load pipe. I also have some "clamps" that are made of L angle on edge so they form a groove on the man lift rail. it's a real pisser if that pipe rolls off 15 or 20 feet up. hope you bought ridgid roller stands with the jack screw. they make one style that has a snap coller and it is never the right hight for the roll groover. loose that chop saw and get a dewalt multi-cutter (graingers) this is THE tool for the mechanical trade. it cuts everything you need it to. and Im sure that you want to promote peace and harmony on the job site but just in case some one gets on your last nerve i casually mention to you that lennox fire and rescue demolition blades will remove ANYTHING that gets in your way. ( try them on your next boiler demo) good luck and good piping, paul0 -
Nice Job
Looks like alot of work and one the guys can get there hands in to.
That looks like you borrowed my pipe vise
.
In the picture of the pex is that a trap primer in orange ?
Keep up the photos and keep the chiropracter number close by .
Scott
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
The orange device...
is a roughed in tekmar slab sensor. Nothing but the finest for our customers!
ME
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Thanks Paul.
I'm going shopping today...
Great to hear from someone with more and bigger experience than me.
ME
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Proud new owner
of a Dewalt Multi Cutter. Thanks Paul!
Can't wait to use it.
ME
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
I like the manhole
ring and concrete culvert for the manifold box! Can you get them cast a lidwith your company name on it? Or have a welder come by and add your name to the lid with some weld bead
hot rod
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Mark if you like ......
using Victaulic you should try the Ridgid ProPress. We do alot of big stuff and have both at my shop. We will actually be buying our third ProPress machine soon. The fittings are pricy but the labor savings are unheard of - same premise as Victaulic. Takes about 10 seconds to make a 4" joint - that adds up fast - but I know you know the numbers! We had a test rig that we had to set up and seal under pressure. We had 94 PSI of water pressure and it was all we could do to just hold the fitting on the pipe under pressure - but the propress sealed it - on the fly, under that type of pressure. Pretty amazing to say the least. Nice looking job - bet you slept well after lugging that 4"
Gregg0 -
ditto the pro-press
We have two machines. I usually run out the main loop in vic and then make all my branch take offs and equipment connections in pro-press. sticker shock can get you but i find that i almost never go over the materials budget the co. gives me for a given job. it's always the labor budget that i'm up against so i'll spend the money on materials that save me real time and this is a good product.
Paul.0 -
one other tip
sometimes the groover will raise up a ridge on the end of the pipe. a lot of guys file or grind it off. I find that a 4 or 5 inch grinder with a 60 grit flap wheel will make short work of the ridge and leave a really nice surface for the gasket to seal against.
Paul.0 -
I Used To...
... buy manhole frames and covers when I worked in the district heating biz. You can get the foundry to cast your company name/logo in the cover if you want.0 -
With the
Delta T you can get on an installation like that you could probably get 10,000,000 btu's out of 4" pipe. HHHmmmmmmm, let's see.
350GPM (conservatively) X 8.33 #/gl = 2915.5 #/minute
X 60 minutes = 174,930
X (let's say 50* delta T)= 8,746,500 btu's.
Guess 10,000,000 is a little optimistic unless we design for 60* delta T. AH HAH!!!! that would do it!!
It's amazing, the work a pump can do. Just think of moving a ton and a half of water every minute 24 hours a day.
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 86.2K THE MAIN WALL
- 3.1K A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
- 52 Biomass
- 422 Carbon Monoxide Awareness
- 90 Chimneys & Flues
- 2K Domestic Hot Water
- 5.4K Gas Heating
- 99 Geothermal
- 156 Indoor-Air Quality
- 3.4K Oil Heating
- 63 Pipe Deterioration
- 913 Plumbing
- 6K Radiant Heating
- 380 Solar
- 14.8K Strictly Steam
- 3.3K Thermostats and Controls
- 53 Water Quality
- 41 Industry Classes
- 47 Job Opportunities
- 17 Recall Announcements