Alright class............(hb)

heatboy

I have been called in on this job to add some radiant to an existing system. This is what I saw when I walked in to the mechanical room. There are some issues here. The pump you see here is wired to run 24/7. What other issues do you see?

The boiler has an input of 164K and that is an 80 gallon Alliance Indirect. Let's troubleshoot!

Warm Regards,

heatboy


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Bob Bona_4

I see

that pipes make great hangers for chairs!:) Taco zone valves..hmmm

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eric_2

Now I know

we should see and expansion tank somewhere in there...

don_9

hmmm

Is this primary/secondary with a four way mixing valve?
Why?where the circ for the tank?

Ok,now I see thanks paul,I am still learning,however I can said that tanks in the wrong place,can I aleast get a D?

Paul Pollets_2

My guess is

Pump should be on the Mix side, not on the return. A PBD should be installed around the pump because of the use of zone valves; there's a return piped into the pump inlet, instead of being piped into the return of the 4 way. I don't see a CV on either the return or supply.

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Mike Kraft

Head Scratcher

But it looks like Paul eluded to that the pump is on the wrong side of the 4 way.But it gets a bit thicker......It seems as Don said there is some type of primary secondary "stardegy".Although there is quite a bit missing.The pump is pumping away from the 4 way and into the supply"header".The zone valves all are on the supply of the manifolds(radiant)but the flow is countering the supply.If the pump is going 24/7 then it must be dead heading or just flowing through the boiler some how some way.

The ST tank leaves much to be desired and the strap on 4006 aquastat is a curiosity also.Is that a recirc situation?Why the aquatat on the ST branch?

How old is this system?Did it work?Good Luck:)

One more thing I see........No Diamond Plate!

cheese

heatboy

Better view?

You guys are pretty good, so far. Yes, the pump is on the return to boiler side of the 4-way and needs to be moved to the mixed supply where there is no air removal device. Pressure by-pass valves will be needed on pump because it will have to be changed to a 26-64. This pump is in series with the boiler pump that pumps the air handlers and indirect. The only reason there is any flow at all in the radiant is because of the manually set valve. It does pull a small amount of untempered water into the slab, but virtually no flow in the staple-up in the bathrooms upstairs which consequently froze and the system is now loaded with glycol! The valve needs the 011 actuator and 360 to make it actually modulate.

Very difficult to get 10+ GPM down that 3/4" piping to the indirect HX. That has it's own issues because it it controlled by a zone valve and should have a dedicated pump due to the flow differences between the indirect and hydro-air HXs. It goes on and on. I'm at $5K to repair this.

Did I forget to mention I didn't get this project first time around. Oh yeah, the house cost $750K to build. ;-)

Warm Regards,

heatboy

climatecadvanced.com

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Steve Ebels

Looks like

Most of the water is just going around in circles. Pump n mix valve are piped wrong. I can't follow it from the picture but it looks like that alliance will never see enough flow to produce what it's capable of.

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tombig

4 way mess

Good luck. There's some serious hydronicoids out here and if they can't help you...........I can't!! I like to follow a few simple guidelines:
If it ain't broke don't fix it
Think like water
The best engineer is in your head
The "dead men" were better than we'll ever be

eleft_4

Not nosey, just want to know

hb,

Was your first thought the proverbial "not with a ten foot pole"


what are your thoughts about the second time around?





al

heatboy

I always leave the door open.

Al,

I usually take the time to send a form letter thanking them for the opportunity when I know I lost a project. With me, it's not personal, it's just money. I enjoy instances like this because once I fix this, which I will, and make it work the way it should, these clients become some of my best advertising. Sure, I would rather get the project first time around, but that's not always the case. That being said, I may not get this because of the monies it will take to correct it. But hey, it's warm in my house (g).

Warm Regards,

heatboy

climatecadvanced.com

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eleft(retired)

open door

hb,

Great attitude, I know it's easer said than done, and I think your right on.


Emotional decisions can be costly.



al

John@Reliable

Every no,gets you closer to a yes!

Cosmo

Just funny

Who ever did this install, I feel bad for him. It was bad enough that his (now ex) customer is telling every he/she knows about how bad this guy was....now his handiwork is online, broadcast to the world. And we all get to pick at it...we should be ashamed. By the way, how long will it take before one of the elbows holding the domestic exp. tank out like that loosens (or is bumped) and leaks all over the place...hehe
Casmo

heatboy

I didn't put it here.......

to just tear it apart. I was hoping to help guys learn some things. We all, me included, have mistakes in our past that we wish we could do over. I know who did this, but that's not relevant. If we can show how this should be done, hopefully, we can all learn. That was/is my sole intention.

Warm Regards,

heatboy

climatecadvanced.com

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Cosmo

Did'nt mean to offend

My intention was just to point out that every decision that we make on the job has consequnces, we all have jobs that in retrospect we know we could have done better...I know I do. Unfortunately, these jobs...although eventually forgotten, never go away. I got carried away, and now I am the one who is embarrassed, lesson learned, thanks for holding up the mirror. Please accept my apologies.....
Casmo