Home Inspectors

Unknown

on combustion problems and oil and gas combustion. They do not typically know what to do if they suspect a problem. I have had some come to my classes and they are really suprised at what we teach them. Many of them reflect back and realize that they probably left undetected problems on equipment on some jobs they inspected. At the very least they should tell the homeowner to get a professional to look at their equipment. How about this... contractors offer their services to do inspections on heating and cooling equipment, seem like a great way to make some money and at the same time make sure a pro looks at equipment and tests for CO and other problems.

Mark Hunt

Timmie!!!!

Wait til you see what I post tomorrow!!!!

It is time for a change!!

Mark H

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Jeff Lawrence_24

Home Inspectors?

Don't get me started.

A buddy of mine sold his house, contigent upon satisfactory inspection. The inspector counted the switch covers missing screws and didn't even notice the receptacles near the sinks were not GFI protected! This same person said the furnace was 'not operating properly' because of the huge glow from the unit when it was starting up (Hot surface ignition). He didn't even look at the condenser that had the coils plugged up with grass and dirt.

I called the inspector and showed him the purpose of the 'huge glow' and he didn't beleive me!

Fortunately this person is an exception, not the rule.

Home inspectors need more training on our trades and not to bee too proud to know when they are in over their heads.

DanHolohan

Timmie

Is it fair to paint an entire profession with a single broad brush stroke?

Golden Rule, eh?

Unknown

I was not judging the entire

Home Inspection industry. One of my concerns as I talk to many of these folks is that many of them are very talented in the construction side of the business, but by their own admission do not understand in particular the combustion side of the oil and gas business. I accept your chastisement if it is interpreted to paint a broad brush stroke to the industry as a whole. Let us hear from the home inspectors. I attended a meeting recently concerning this very subject and found that some local regulatory bodies are very concerned about this very subject. That the inspection gives the homeowner a sense of security which at times may not be so. If I am out of order then I surely apologize and will post nothing more about this subject.

DanHolohan

What got my attention

was your lead statment: "Home inspectors do not get training on combustion problems and oil and gas combustion."

None of them?

Steve Levine

Home inspectors

I don't think we can lump everyone together in any case that you want to make an example of. If you want you can say 'some' or even 'most', it is unfair to infer that you mean 'all'.

Unknown

It is not covered in detail

in the ASHI Training Manual for Home Inspectors. I ask why and was told it was an area they felt should be left to professionals in the trades. I recently interviewed about five different companies in New England and most find they are limited in this area. I might add that ZJeffdery Mays company was not one of them they are an exception to the rule. So maybe you are correct not all of them but certainly we should not expect them to be combustion testing experts.

My reason for posting this was relative to a post farther down that was finding fault with inspectors for not finding combustion problems. My reason for posting was to point out that they are not trained therefore should not be expected to know what a contractor of service person may know.

With that I suggested that trades people may want to expand their services to the real estate and bank people to do those very inspections.

When I was with the gas company we did inspectios for real estate and banks for that very reason.

Arlene Fuentes and I had a very interesting discussion about this very thing recently. By the way while we are at it here I find many times some who do service and install need more training in this area. I am called on jobs many times that the only problem is lack of air in the equipment room, venting is incorrect, burner flames out of adjustment, pressure problems and other related combustion problems. I was with a technician recently who told me he was working on a boiler and found himself having trouble breathing. He had to go back in a day or two would I meet him there. I did and found with the boiler running we had 1200 ppm CO IN THE BOILER ROOM. He does not have a CO tester and yet he services equipment every day.

THERE NEEDS TO BE EXTENSIVE TRAINING IN THIS AREA.

Dave Palmer

how...

about the guy that called us three times insisting that we needed a roll out switch on a oil barometric,or the one that was refusing to pass the house because the insulated water lines ran thru the attic and wanted to know why they weren't between floor joists.... maybe because its a SLAB!Sorry to say I had to hang up after going round and round for 10 minutes.Some guys are great but just like any business you get boneheads.Many good guys out there,my own house guy was great . Dave

Mark Hunt

Here ya go!!!!!!

I took these pics today at the home of some friends that moved into this house one month ago.

They have all been sick since they moved in. Wonder why?

There was a power vented water heater here originally that needed to be replaced. The former HO decided he could do it himself and this is what he did.

Now, the Home Inspectors PASSED this system when the new owners bought the place.

The wife has suffered from fatigue, headaches. and sinus problems. The one year old has been sick constantly. The husband noticed fatigue as well.

The utility is in the process of changing gas meters in the area and that is how this situation was found. He red tagged it and locked the gas valve to the WH.

Oh, the last HO also put a deck over the termination of the power vent. I would have taken pics of that but all you would have seen was steps.

The return duct has HUGE gaps in it and when the blower on the furnace runs it draws the whole basement into negative pressure and the products of combustion from the WH get sucked in and distributed throughout the house.

Death from CO in the summer!!

I have seen too many situations like this. Maybe there are some inspectors that know what to look for, but I haven't met one yet.

Mark H

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J.C.A.

Timmie and the rest of the unruly mob .

I don't want to piss anyone off ... but home inspectors eat their young. I have bumped into enough of them that the thought of it makes me cringe . The stories are ENDLESS .(Jerk of all trades and MASTER of NONE!) Having worked in the illustrious oil field for over 17 years , I've seen them come and go and wouldn't take their advice for a free home. I saw the rise and fall in Mass. of the reposessed bank owned homes and frankly, the house inspectors I saw, I wouldn't let work on my bicycle. They were basicaqlly clueless when it came to heating systems . Quality control has come under new rules in Ma. And I welcome it . All "home inspectors " have to pass a well written and extremely high proficientcy (to quote the sources) test . It has succeded in weeding out the blowhards from the knowledgable. Sometimes the State rules work for the better . Not always , but sometimes . JMHO Chris.

DanHolohan

Maybe itwhat troubles me

> I don't want to piss anyone off ... but home

> inspectors eat their young. I have bumped into

> enough of them that the thought of it makes me

> cringe . The stories are ENDLESS .(Jerk of all

> trades and MASTER of NONE!) Having worked in the

> illustrious oil field for over 17 years , I've

> seen them come and go and wouldn't take their

> advice for a free home. I saw the rise and fall

> in Mass. of the reposessed bank owned homes and

> frankly, the house inspectors I saw, I wouldn't

> let work on my bicycle. They were basicaqlly

> clueless when it came to heating systems .

> Quality control has come under new rules in Ma.

> And I welcome it . All "home inspectors " have to

> pass a well written and extremely high

> proficientcy (to quote the sources) test . It has

> succeded in weeding out the blowhards from the

> knowledgable. Sometimes the State rules work for

> the better . Not always , but sometimes . JMHO

> Chris.



is the blanket statement against the entire profession.

DanHolohan

Maybe itwhat troubles me

> I don't want to piss anyone off ... but home

> inspectors eat their young. I have bumped into

> enough of them that the thought of it makes me

> cringe . The stories are ENDLESS .(Jerk of all

> trades and MASTER of NONE!) Having worked in the

> illustrious oil field for over 17 years , I've

> seen them come and go and wouldn't take their

> advice for a free home. I saw the rise and fall

> in Mass. of the reposessed bank owned homes and

> frankly, the house inspectors I saw, I wouldn't

> let work on my bicycle. They were basicaqlly

> clueless when it came to heating systems .

> Quality control has come under new rules in Ma.

> And I welcome it . All "home inspectors " have to

> pass a well written and extremely high

> proficientcy (to quote the sources) test . It has

> succeded in weeding out the blowhards from the

> knowledgable. Sometimes the State rules work for

> the better . Not always , but sometimes . JMHO

> Chris.



is the blanket statement against the entire profession.

DanHolohan

I try

to avoid cursing an entire profession when I have a problem with some members of that profession. I try to take a moment to consider how it would feel to be on the receiving end of those comments, and how much hurt those words can cause.

It's just the Golden Rule, but it works for me. And I think it has helped to make the Wall what it is. JMHO.

John R. Hall

Point of reference

If you read The News, you know (shameless self-promotion):

http://www.achrnews.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,1338,84791,00.html

Unknown

Home Inspectors

Hey guys lets ease up here. I never meant to open Pandoras Box.

I tell contractors if you want the inspectors to be your friends then help them out. Think about this....if you and I have a hard time staying fresh on what is new...think about plumbing, heating, electrical and home inspectors who are not exposed to all the good stuff we get. Help them out FAX or drop off a copy of the new furnace or boiler you are putting in. Send them info on the new venting and piping changes that are only in the manufacturers instructions.

If you have a home inspector in your area offer them your services. It is a tough business and we all have to work together. COMMUNICATION AND TRAINING is what will get it done. Otherwise the Homeowners get a bad impression of all of us.

I was trying to get everyone to see this I guess my post was misunderstood...sometimes as my wife says the story of my life. I honestly only mean to do good fellas!!! OOPs and ladies also see what I mean.

John@Reliable

Timmie,

Don't you know "it was not PC". I'm so sick about hurting someone feelings. Lighten up guys I for one and most of you knew what he meant.I wish I had a dollar for every service call I went to within the first month of a new home owner moving in. I've seen some of the reports that they give out that made no strong statements about anything. My hat is off to Arlene@octberhome,she is a true pro but most don't have a clue! P.S. Thank god everyone in our business is the best! hehehe

DanHolohan

My point exactly

> Don't you know "it was not PC". I'm so sick about

> hurting someone feelings. Lighten up guys I for

> one and most of you knew what he meant.I for one

> wished I had a dollar for every service call I

> went to within the first month of a new house

> owner moving in. I've seen some of the reports

> that they give out that made no strong statements

> about anything. My hat is off to

> Arlene@octberhome,she is a true pro but most

> don't have a clue!



Arlene. And I know many others like her.

How about if we judge people one at a time? And then be prepared to be judged ourselves.

DanHolohan

My point exactly:

Arlene. And I know many others like her.

It seems to me that we should judge people one at a time. And then be prepared to be judged ourselves.

John (jcg)

My Home Inspector

I just bought a new home in La Fayette, GA and the home inspector that we employed was great. He was not as familiar with the gas heating system as one of us but not many are but he did use a CO detector (I did teach him a few things about combustion). But his overall knowledge was more than acceptable. The best thing is that he didn’t try to present himself as an expert in any particular field but rather as someone that had a working knowledge of most of the aspects of things that can go wrong with a home.

When you take into account all the trades that are encompassed with building or maintaining a home you will realize that these guys don’t have an easy job.

jcg

Mike Kraft

Please Excuse me JCG..............

You said gas?You are converting arent you:)Hope your enjoying your retirement.

cheese

Unknown

Kraft American

He has retired from cleaning even his own oil burner, has he?

Hey John, while you are cleaning your last oil burner ever, do you know it at the time? Or is there always one more to do....somewhere?

Do they even deliver oil where you are?

Noel

Jeff Lawrence_24

Hey, JCG

Call or email me when you get down to Lafayette. I'm not too far south of you and maybe we can get together.

Jeff

Duncan_2

Lots of stuff to know.

Knowledge can be hard to come by. There are a lot of things that can go wrong with a house, and it takes years of experience in the building trades to know what to look for.

The building inspection business seems to have blossomed in the last few years, attracting many. Some good, some bad. I suspect it's advertized as a way to make easy money, like it's the latest small entrepreneurial rage.

Like county building department inspectors, the less they know the more irritating they are. I've restored 100 year old buildings, framed, trimmed, roofed, plumbed, wired, stacked logs, built and poured forms, demo-ed, patched, painted, piped, repaired, replaced, ripped out, refinished and seen more houses than most of these guys have, so I tend to view them a bit cautiously. On the other hand, I've seen them find things that were not immediately apparent. I try to keep an open mind, because it's been revealed many times through the years that I don't know it all. ;-)

I've had legitimate things pointed out by them, like burner rollout and cold air returns near the furnace, but more typically, I'll see some guy with a TIF looking for gas leaks. Do you think his TIF would "find a leak" if he held it right near the burners at light off?

I was called once to repair a leak at a furnace. There was no leak, per se, but the gas valve was an older style whose regulator released the tiniest amount of gas when the valve opened, less than a puff from a butane cigarette lighter. I could not verbally convince the inspector this was normal operation.

But he seemed to be a reasonable guy. Took me a couple hours of research, phone calls, contacting the manufacturer, asking questions, tracking down THE ONE WHO KNOWS where the documentation for this gas valve was, the document that mentioned the small release of gas as normal and harmless. It was a long time ago, I probably got paid for the visit, but not the time it took to research. We both learned something. It was also an opportunity to not be bothered with the whole thing, not bill them and blow the whole thing off. Maybe I was slow at the time and had the time and patience to pursue it. Maybe another time, I wouldn't have. Anyway, I located the documentation, had it faxed to the right person, and the home sold.

What would the home inspector (and seller, and buyer) have thought if I shrugged and walked away from the whole thing?

It's like every other profession, the good ones are reasonable and open, and a pleasure to work with, and the ignorant ones are a pain in the **** when they come up against something they may not understand.

It does seem like there are a lot of building inspectors who are new at it, though. Most of us who have spent years in the trades picking up bits of knowledge here and there probably know a LOT of stuff most new building inspectors don't. That's when attitude, being reasonable and open - inspectors and trades alike - can go a long way.

Oh yeah, the part that's laughable to me is the fine print that lets them off the hook if they miss something and the buyer gets stuck. But like JCG says, it's a difficult job to do correctly.

My (self-righteous) two cents worth.

Dave Yates (PAH)

The road less traveled..............

Occasionally a homeowner who wants an accurate PHVAC report will call. Sellers hate my reports, buyers love em. I warn everyone up front that I will not pull any punches.

Home inspectors can not see what my 30+ years have taught me. They are trying to cover too many bases and can't be true experts in all trades. Whenever I run into one of these guys in the field, I do my best to help them see what I see. The potential buyers just might become future customers(G).

There's bad apples in every barrel! One report had "found" a gas leak at virtually every joint. Close inspection using detectors properly calibrated and follow up with soap solution revealed NO leaks.

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J.C.A.

Dave... A small aside,

Did the "inspector " read the manual supplied with the gas detector ?I read the one supplied with the one we got a few months ago and it said that the device will pick up VOC's from PIPE DOPE if set too sensitive .(talk about a juxtaposition?). I try to set mine so that the thing starts to beep a little faster when set about 2 inches from my lighter, without flame of course. I find this to be a better gauge than setting it to the most sensitive it can get,setting .As far as home inspectors go , I'll admit to being a bit tough at the onset of this discussion , but have to agree to finding a couple that are way better than most in my area . I have a contractor friend who started a "home inspection" business as a side line about 15 years ago . He is more than qualified in the building aspects of most homes , but when he spots something he believes is amiss, he will call on a "Pro" to come and asses the "problem" .He called me for suspected problems with anything oil fired , and more times than I could count I would find an electrician or plumber in the house checking out something that he thought could be a problem . He comparitively charges an arm and 1/2 a leg for his services but
a lot of the banks doing the lending use him almost exclusively for the loans they approve . I am sorry for dismissing an entire industry for the bonehead mistakes of a pile of people posing as something they are not , but there are a few real ones out there .(anyone in eastern Ma. can e mail me for his name ) Chris.

DanHolohan

Chris

Well done. Thanks.