Chinese fittings from \"America's Boiler Company\"?

Mad Dog

just one last time. For the record, Greg, before Mao's Long March, when the Chinese Communists routed the Nationalists under Chiang Kai Shek, driving him to Taiwan, Christianity, namely Catholicism, had taken a very strong hold in China...some records say as high as 35-40% had already been converted. The Godless, Mao felt that his greatest threat to his power was Chiang and Christianity, that is why he so brutally suppressed the church, forcing it underground - where it has flourished!!! Furthermore, before, Mao seized power, Chiang had been slowly modernizing the backward giant, moving it toward democratic reforms. Unfortunately, he didn't get the chance. He did however, with Taiwan, and I'd say he did a heck of a job. "Democracy" has not been seen in its true form since the Greeks...AS you know, we live in a Republic, but if we are going compare China pre-Mao to China Post-Mao, we are talking apples and oranges "democracy" versus "Communism." and, Please, don't downplay and dismiss the Cold War as an era of hysterical paranoia - it was very real and ready to become a flamin' hot war on several occassions. Don't you recall a few years ago when they threatened to send some ICBMs to California if we helped defend Taiwan - THEY ARE OUR ENEMY! you'll see......Look guys and gals, I don't bring these topics up, and they definitely do go too far afield, but as Rich said, these issues affect our trade. They are relevant, let's just try to keep the real political stuff on private emails. A little exposure to Politics and history ain't a bad thing either. Mad Dog

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Boilerpro

Chinese fittings from \"America's Boiler Company\"?

Just put in my first two Burnhams's in nearly seven years. The second one came with a nice 1/4 turn boiler drain (made in Italy) and a Chinese reducing tee. Italy, okay, but China? Sounds like the bean counters thought they could save a few cents, but they failed to take into account how many installers would notice this and take offense. Nothing like funding the economy of a nation that is oppressive to get people upset. Just giving a heads up to the folks at Burnham.

Boilerpro

Floyd

The problem here is.....

that I think that the only maker of black iron fittings left in America is Ward manufacturing
which is located about 10 mi. from me. AND guess what!!!! They are owned by the JAPS!!!!!!
It has been extremely difficult for them to compete with the cheap imported steel fittings that
have flooded the US market. The pay scale for these men has been cut to help competition
but there still have been many layoffs in the last year as the co. looses contract after contract.

I don't know what the answers are... just know that I have to live with the reality of the situation.
It's not going to be a happy holiday season for many of my friends and neighbors!!!

Floyd

eleft(retired)

Made in?????

I agree.... but check the labels on your clothes... most of the boards and cableing on the computer we have learned to depend on... not to mention the so called US auto industry.. and home appliances...Made in ,,,, not the USA

What to do.. go nude..no car..no computer..no stove or microwave??????

Life ain't easy, so we have to deal with it

al

Floyd

Clothes reminds me...

don't know whether this is true or not... didn't make the guy take off his shirt to show me.....
but while traveling this weekend... the guy working for the TSA, checking us through
security at Logan made the comment that their uniforms are made in......IRAQ!!!!!!!!

Nothing like supporting that SOB right before we blow him away with money to make
uniforms for our government employees!!!!!!

Now figure that one out!!!

Floyd

John@Reliable

Maybe if people in our country

really knew what and who they were Voting for things could change? Sorry for the silly idea. John@Reliable

Unknown

Just checked my Compaq Laptop

Im not sure where the parts were made , but it says the computer was assembled in Taiwan .

eleft(retired)

Maybe!

John,

Party doesn't matter...it's the American way...the price is more important than the origin on the label.

Politicians can not control themselves and sure can not control the "Market"


No one can change this.


al

Mad Dog

Say it ain't so, Glenn..........................................

Must be a mixup....I've not come across that on any Burnhams (my favorite Boiler), but if that is true, I'll be writing to the powers that be. China is an oppressive, brutal, totalitarian state, who we are making rich. Wake up folks ....most populous nation in the world, got nukes, place NO value on human life, hate us, and are becoming an economic superpower to boot....Do you want to make our future enemy in WWIII (China)rich ?????? Buy American first, Other countires last, and Chinese NEVER!!!!!!!! Mad Dog

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Boilerpro

I warned you, Glenn....

Really Baaad P.R. for Burnham.

Boilerpro

[Deleted User]

mad dog why

do you think china is our enemy...im just curious...as 250,000 chinese were put to death protecting 12 americans (dolittles raiders) when they crashed landed in china after bombing the japs. those china men wouldn't give up our guys and the japs killed a quarter million of them in retaliation. dont get me wrong..im as red blooded american as anyone, spent a decade in the service. been to china..its just the way that things evolve. cutting edge inovation is americas future. not the old industries that we can't compete in.

greg_7

chinese

The Chinese aren't our enemy. Our enemy is us. We believe that giving our jobs away to far away countries where people make pennies is good for our economy.

It's all just capitalist greed. Slave labor makes it. importers make the money. Americans (and Canadians) get screwed.

By the way, the gap between the rich and poor is the greatest since the Roaring 20's.

Sell some fancy systems.

SeattleNick_2

Well said Greg,

lower costs mean bigger profits so those Company Leaders can travel first class in every aspect of THEIR
lives.

Sure, we are all too smart to be just workers in the "Global Mart" scheme they keep repeating over and over. Imported products from countries that play by rules similar to us don't bother me and I thank the Hitachi Co. for employing our neighbors in the JP Ward pipe fitting Factory....they could put that factory anywhere on the planet they wanted to. Those keep people fed and housed and warm in the USA...the place I live so far.

I was dismayed to find the WATTS backflow preventer I just unpacked is now made in China but the box is boldly marked
Andover, Massachusetts, U.S.A. I am sure if they were genuinely proud of the fact that their product is "crafted" in China they could afford to affix a big sticker to the box
proclaiming it. They don't give a rip and it shows in the fit and finish and feel of this unit. Even the BOLTS look cheap! I suppose it probably functions, but I will never know because it is going back to the supplier or, if they won't take it, it will be tossed.

Here is some info from their site....


"Watts Industries’ headquarters are at 815 Chestnut Street in North Andover, Massachusetts, U.S.A. The company has manufacturing plants and distribution channels in the United States, Canada and Europe, plus a majority controlled joint venture in The People’s Republic of China. At Watts Industries, Setting The Standard In Valve Technology isn’t just a slogan, it’s the way we’ve done business since 1874."


.........O'Keefe continued, "As previously announced, we are implementing a plan to consolidate several of our manufacturing plants in North America and Europe. At the same time we are expanding our manufacturing capacity in China. The implementation of the manufacturing restructuring plan began in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2001. The Company decided to expand the scope of our manufacturing restructuring plan and transfer certain production to our low cost manufacturing plants in Tunisia and Bulgaria, which were acquired with the acquisitions of ADEV Electronic and Fimet SRL in June 2001, respectively. The manufacturing restructuring plan is expected to be completed by the end of fiscal 2003. We have increased the cost of our restructuring plan and the associated savings which will be generated as a result of this production transfer. We now anticipate that the pre-tax cost of our restructuring plan will be $12,500,000 and estimate an annual pre-tax savings of approximately $5,000,000 following the completion of the plan.


http://www.wattsind.com/newsrelease102302-2.htm

In addition to our cast iron manufacturing joint venture in Tianjin, China (TWT), of which we have a 60% controlling interest, we also plan during 2002 to have a 100% controlled brass and bronze valve operation in Tianjin; and for some of our retail oriented products such as flexible hose connectors, plumbing fittings, and under-the-sink products, we plan to acquire a majority interest in a manufacturing company in the Shanghai provinces. Watts Europe will also turn to China for the manufacture of some of its products while at the same time utilizing a new production facility in Bulgaria, which was acquired as part of our acquisition of Fimet, which had already strategically planned to move the majority of its production from Italy to Bulgaria prior to the time of our acquisition.

We are committed to dramatically reducing our product costs during the next two years while continuing our selective acquisition of specialized product lines with enhanced gross margins.

jerryb

Last night on LI a cable channel reran a program about American viet-nam POW's and how they were treated.Yet i think i read that we (USA) are now tradeing with them.How fast we forget.But anyway just want to say HAPPY THANKSGIVING too all.LOVETHE GOOD OLD UNITED STATES oF AMERICA!!!!!

Boilerpro

The government of China is the Problem, IMHO

not the people. Never been there, but hope to some day, but from accounts I've heard we as citizens of the U.S. could learn alot from the Chinese and vice versa. However, I'd suspect that most trade with China will benefit the oppressors in power, not the typical citizen. I believe the situation is similair to Iraq, most of the citizens don't want war (television loves to focus on the extremists), but thier government is not under thier control. The world seems to be particularly screwed up right now.

Boilerpro

Tones_2

Portable assembly facilities.........

Our company was given a chance to bid on a project for the Timex Corporation a few years ago.(you know, Timex, it takes a licking and keeps on ticking) Bid involved traveling to the Newark New Jersey area to install air conditioning units in about two dozen shipping containers. Electricians were to outfit these trailers with lighting and power. Carpenters to install work benches.

The whole concept was to bring the watch making business to the countries (or remote islands) with the cheapest labor market. Or if there were some political unrest in one of these countries, the trailers could be packed up, put back on the boat, and delivered somewhere else.

We never bid the job and I don't know what became of the project.

Incidently, some of the watch boxes are clearly marked "Assembled in America." I was told that most of the watch is made outside the country but because THE WATCHBAND was attached to the watch face in the USA, then they can put the assembled sticker on the box.


.........Tones

Unknown

Hey guys have you forgotten

that many of the boilers you all love and install today and more on the way are made in Europe and Korea and many other places. We sometimes shoot ourselves in the foot with our own gun and blame the guy that made the gun. Let us face it we are becoming a global economy. It is inevitable that this will happen both economically and politically. We could not go kick but in Iraq with out first going thru the UN. It is written prophetically in the Bible that times such as these will come and then the end. That is not a doomsday message but a message of hope, because then the one who died on the cross will come back and spend 1,000 years cleaning up the mess we have made of planet earth. Our job is to occupy until he comes, and that is just what many of you are doing. It is much wiser to go sit sometimes by the bird feeder (thanks Dan) and ponder such things. In times of pondering comes wisdom not irrational behavior. Just one quick story:

I had the privilege to go to Africa several years ago. While I was there I spent many hours in the villages and homes of many wonderful African people. Most of them do not know what is going on in the rest of the world. Their simple way of life and child like approach to life is wonderful to behold. The sad story is that they are dying because of ignorance, AIDS is killing them so fast that Zimbabwe alone has 11,000,000 orphans caused by AIDS.

What is my point, do not let our knowledge go to waste by hating and being angry at what goes on. The simple commandment is to Love God first and to love thy neighbour as thyself. Who is my neighbour.

Please do not misunderstand this, I love America and served her for nine years during Vietnam in the Navy. We are not perfect and have made many mistakes and are sometimes hated because we think we are always right. I do not have a bird feeder (should get one) but I have my place of meditation and reflection. Go to yours and reflect on the things that really matter. If we keep waving the flag someone will shoot at it, if we extend a hand of love eventually someone will reach out and take hold of it. I found hands reaching out all over Africa, India, Pakistan and when I last visited Afghanistan even there.

DanHolohan

What saddens me most about China:

In China's Countryside, 'It's a Boy!' Too Often


By John Pomfret
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, May 29, 2001; Page A01


XICUN VILLAGE, China -- Not much seems to have changed in Xicun, a cliff-side village deep in the mountains of southern Guangxi province. Except when you scan the birth records.

Last year, 20 children were born to the women of Xicun. Sixteen were boys. The year before, 24 were born and 19 were boys. There is a reason for the preponderance of males: In 1999, the medical center that serves Xicun bought a cheap, Chinese-made ultrasound machine that allowed doctors to determine the sex of a fetus. Sex-selective abortions followed. And now the town, like hundreds of others in China, is facing a boom in boys.

Sex-selective abortions, infanticide and significant differences in children's access to medical care are contributing to an increasingly skewed sex ratio in China's countryside, Western and Chinese researchers say. Figures released this year as part of China's census show there are 117 boys born for every 100 girls.

In heavily rural areas such as Guangxi, where boys are prized because of their value for farm work and because they inherit the land, the numbers approach 140 boys for every 100 girls, well off the international norm of 105 to 100. Overall, Chinese researchers say, there are 41 million more males than females among China's 1.2 billion people, up 10 percent from the previous estimate in 1997.

As in India, South Korea and other Asian countries where sons are valued more than daughters, advanced medical technology has simplified the quest for a male heir in China. The problem is exacerbated here by a decades-old policy of limiting births, Western and Chinese researchers say.

China's family planning policy also complicates efforts to determine the extent of the problem. Strict limits on births have forced millions of parents to hide unapproved children, resulting in what Chinese call a "black population" of as many as 6 million unregistered children. Many of these children are believed to be girls.

Sensitive to criticism of its family planning policies and concerned about the sex ratio, the government has also strictly controlled information about the issue. The last major article about the problem in China's mainstream press appeared in 1997. Since then, despite government efforts, including a nationwide ban on sex-selective abortions, the situation has not improved, researchers say.

Researchers predict the social consequences could be disastrous. Already, "bachelor villages," inhabited predominantly by men, dot parts of China's poorer regions, in northern Shaanxi province, and in Ningxia and Guangxi provinces. Chinese police researchers say crime has grown among the millions of men of marrying age who cannot find a bride. A trade in kidnapped women is booming: 110,000 were freed during a crackdown last year. Chinese gangs also traffic in Vietnamese and North Korean women for would-be Chinese husbands.

More broadly, Western and Chinese researchers are concerned that the trend, and the unintended consequences of family planning policies, will reinforce a sense that the lives of little girls -- and the women they grow up to be -- are less valuable than those of boys and men.

"When the Chinese talk about the social consequences of this issue they always frame it as a problem for the poor men who can't find brides," said Susan Greenhalgh, an anthropologist at the University of California at Irvine, who has studied the sex ratio in China. "What about the girls? I see this issue as another step toward turning Chinese girls and women into commodities."

Dalu village lies on a flat plain near Guangxi's coast on the South China Sea. Seventy percent of the children here are boys. The reasons are not simply cultural; China's policies are also responsible.

Take Wan Baoqi, a mother of three. Her first child was a girl. Under China's policies, if a farmer's first child is female, the couple can try again for a boy. Wan's next child was a boy.

But he was born with a slow right eye and Wan said he is mentally handicapped. Again, under China's policies, if a male child is disabled, the family can have another. Wan's next child was also a boy. "We're stopping with this one," she said, snuggling the healthy baby inside the courtyard of her house.

Wan would not say whether she had sex-selective abortions before having her second son.

"Let's not talk about that," she said. "All I can say is having a boy is key for us. Some people say it's because we're backward," she continued, referring to bureaucrats from Beijing who criticize the predilection for boys as a throwback to feudal times. "The real reason is that we need someone to fetch water, to guard our orchard, to work in the fields and to care for us when we get old."

Wan's desire for a male heir is firmly grounded in economics. There is no social safety net in China's villages -- the government has just started to weave one in the cities -- so parents generally rely on sons in their old age. In addition, China is a patrilineal society, which means inheritance passes from father to son. Chinese also prefer boys because in most parts of the country, a woman marries into her husband's family.

"My girl is going to marry out of the family," Wan said. "So why should we devote resources to her?"

Wan's attitude is not uncommon in China's villages. Research released here in 1999 showed that mortality rates for girls between birth and age 4 were substantially higher than those for boys, because families often did not provide medical care for their daughters.

"If the son is sick, families in the countryside will get a doctor," said Wu Cangping, a senior demographer. "If the girl is sick, they won't. Also, families tend not to let their daughters continue too long in school because tuition is expensive, so they don't learn health education."

Figures released in 1997 reinforce Wu's description. In China's countryside, mortality in the first year of life was 27 percent higher for girls than for boys. In Guangxi, female infant mortality was 60 percent higher.

In the late 1970s, as China prepared its family planning policies, Chinese researchers debated whether the strict program to limit births would result in a surfeit of boys. An open letter issued by the government and inaugurating what was then known as the "one child" policy argued that sex ratios would not change as a result of family planning.

But Greenhalgh's research in the early 1990s showed that the sex ratio of newborns was closely linked to the intensity with which the family planning policies were carried out. In three villages in Shaanxi, she found that the ratio fluctuated from 114 boys to 100 girls in 1979-83, when the "one child" policy first was promulgated, to 98 to 100 in the locally lenient period of 1984-87, to a very high 145 to 100 in the 1988-93 period, when the policy was strictly enforced. Studies by the Bureau of Civil Affairs in Hunan province in 1990 came up with a similar link.

Ultrasound machines made their debut in China in the mid-1980s. Chinese firms near Shanghai and in surrounding Jiangsu province now churn out thousands of machines a year for less than $2,000 apiece.

"It's not one or two counties that have them," Wu said. "Every county has one. Even townships have them now."

The government issued a ban on sex-selective abortions in 1993, and in 1995 passed a law criminalizing them. Still, Chinese and Western doctors say, the practice continues.

In Dalu, Pan Juan, 58, a mother of four, said she tries not to think about the "other one" -- her fifth child whom she last saw when the girl was just several days old. "She was a mistake; we were worried about fines. So we gave her away," the grizzled grandmother said.

Pan said she does not know what happened to the girl. "Many people do that. They just bundle the child up and leave it with the government," she said. "Perhaps she made it to America."

Over the past decade, Americans have adopted more than 30,000 Chinese babies; almost all of them have been girls.

Pan's biggest worry now is about her youngest son, 20.

"I don't really think about the little girl," she said. "But my last son, I don't know if he's going to find a wife. There are no girls left."




© 2001 The Washington Post Company

greg_7

China and Globalism

Surely this is not the China that Mao envisioned or even Chang Kai Shek or Sun Yat Sen. I guess the revolution is over.

Globalism is a disaster that is unfolding before us. We can live good lives, believing in our gods. But will the onslaught of globalism be affected by anything other than political action?

Consider the voter turn out lately. Voters are turned off and have lost any faith they might have had in politicians.

I would have to say that this China conversation we've been having is right on point. Poeple see the devatation created by closed businesses in their towns and they listen to the rhetoric from Washington to the states and on down.

One would think, judging from the past election, that our only problem is whether veterans like Max Cleland of Georgia (who left three limbs on the battlefield in Vietnam) are patriotic enough.

Big money has disenfranchised the masses. When the main issues in an elections are gibberish such as partial birth abortions, patriotism (or lack there of and cutting more taxes for the very rich, I guess we had better resign ourselves to slave labor and global capital.

I suppose the worsening economy might invigorate the "left" in the Democratic Party. Then maybe we'll see some debate.

But then will the media report it? (Considering the concentration of ownership in big corporations.)

I still say vote carefully and often.

Mad Dog

It may be a losing battle.................................

trying hard to always buy American, but for those of you that know me...I will never give up and I NEVER quit...I will fight till the bloody end. Yes, it is increasingly harder to find products made here, but if more of us demanded it by going out of our way and blitzing the CEOs with letters and calls telling them why there sales are going down - they would have no choice but to respond in kind. On all my bids I specify that we install American.....some could care less, but many get the twinkle in their eye, when they are reminded how important it is to buy American. Other comments...Ron Jr. Taiwan is an ally of ours, and a democracy, they despise the Red Chinese and although my first choice is American, I will not have a problem with Taiwanese(LOng Live Chiand Kai Shek!!!!). Gerry Gill: Yes! before that Brutish mad man Mao took over china, we were allies...we came to their aid as well defeating the japs. President Nixon wisely made a peace with them to exploit the fissure that had developed between them and The Soviet Communists, but nothing has changed in China...still Red...still MURDERING POOR LITTLE BABY GIRLS!!!! Tiannemen Sqaure....still a Tyranny. As President Nixon, General MacArthur, and many other forerign policy experts have predicted, WE WILL GO TO WAR with CHINA IN THIS CENTURY - guaranteed. They have the poulation, the military, and NOW WE!!!! Are going to make them an economic superpower as well. I will do whatever I can to slow their progress...what are you going to do??? Or do you not agree?????? Hey no one is perfect, I get stuck with Chinese stuff occassionally, but I'm alawys on the lookout. Goin' away to cut down a Christmas Tree this weekend. God Bless you all, God Bless America, and please GOD...convert China back to Christianity and Democracy. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

There is no doubt that CLELAND is as Patriotic as they come.....

and Lew Puller and Ron Kovic for that matter, but that does not mean that their political thinking is good for America. I know plenty of Vets, some in my own family seriuosly injured some killed , who DID it for Country and would do it all again. Cleland et el earned with their blood and guts the right to say whatever they please, but it does not give them final say on all matters. I love those guys for what they did but I hate their liberal left wing politics and freinds like Slick Willie, Hillary, Alec Baldwin, Susan Sarandon, and Streisand. God Bless all of our vets!!!!! Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

As we have seen with Iraq and Afghanistan.......................

politics makes strange bedfellows....China included...the world changes so do allies and political arrangements. China was an ally 50 years ago...not no mo'.........I think America has made a huge mistake by pretty much abandoning our industrial manufacturing..what are we gonna do in the Next world war??????we will be caught with our pants down....having to build manufacturing facilities on the spot...I hope we can do it fast enough!!!!!!! Mad Dog

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greg_7

Missing the point

Max Cleland, like most southern Democrats would be far too conservative to be elected in my hometown of Buffalo, NY. And we are 450 miles from NYC. Even athe Republicans would get squemish...

So what exactly could you mean that Cleland was a liberal?

And as a point of fact: China was never a democracy or Christian.

China is not our enemy. Our enemy is our own acceptance of a political dialogue that pretends that deindustrializon and global capital is good for us, the common folk. Or that ending the estate tax and cutting the top rate is good for us.

Again, in reference to Max Cleland, you can't believe everything on the boob tube. Consider who owns it.

Why war with China? What does China have that we want? Other than slave labor?

Stop pumping them up and we'll never have to worry about war. Remember the Soviet Union? It turns out the greatest threat they posed was in our heads and on TV.

Mark Eatherton1

The point is...

this is not the appropriate place to discuss politics, religion and other non hydronic heating issues. There are other web sites better suited for that. Now, how 'bout them new condensing boilers...

The new Vision series by Heat Transfer Products is going to blow the competiton away. Imagine being able to review the boilers physical history since the day it was born using a lap top computer? Talk about being the ultimate trouble shooter... These guys have got it.

Kudos to Dave, Brian, Jeff and John and all the folks at Heat Transfer Products for thinking outside of the box. The world needs more people like you.

Happy Holidays!!

ME

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Bill Wright_2

Amen -- well said!

Next time I'm in your neck of the woods, I'll have to buy you a beverage of your choice so that we can sit & swap sea stories.

Bill

Jackchips

Thanks ME,

it appears you were able to put a stop to where this was going. Happy Holidays to you, also and to all.

DanHolohan

Agreed

It all goes back to Boilerpro's first post. He'll make a decision and vote with his dollars. Good place to leave it. Thanks.

mp1969

Final Word!

Quality of life in this country is being eroded every day by nothing else than greed. We have a military second to none yet we are being beat up everyday economically! This is allowed by those who profit when their holdings use cheaper labor with no benefits. The bottom line mentality is alive and well in this great nation.
Mark, this takes place in our industry also so it is relevant!
We the people need to voice our concerns and confront our elected officials.
How about them primary secondary systems!

Rich Kontny

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Mad Dog

A very sad state affairs in China

thanks for the report Dan Mad Dog

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