DIY and owner GCs hr

hr

the same animal.


It's fairly easy to screen a DIYer, even on the phone. If they do all the talking and have all the answers... guess what. However what I am finding more and more are fairly well versed DIYers. Most have "surfed" extensivly. Studied the "TV show radiant circuit extranvaganzas", and bought and read all the books.

Caution them on the value of the advise obtained on the www. It's often worth exactly what they paid for it :)

It is very easy to convince most DIYers to let a pro help with fuel line piping, venting, wiring, etc. Most are happy with tube install "sweat equity" Like any homeowner/ contractor relationship, the inital talk or meeting will point the way for you.

On the other hand homeowner GCs, from my experience, often fail, and we've been poisioned by these fairytales. (Don Henly song, sort of :) To act as a GC on a large home project that person would have to quit their daytime job, in my opinion. The logistic of running a job, even whe things go right, can be daunting, and very time consuming.

Selecting the "right subs" is all but impossible for "one time' GCs. Ever work on a job where the subs hated each other! Electrician pees on the plumbers pipe and fittings, the plumber in turn clips some romex. The framers stomp the HVAC duct because they hacked his floor joist, on and on it goes. Hard for a homeowner GC to know, or be able control these situations.

I'm not saying that all owner GCs fail. But sucess stories are pretty rare. Saw a divorce end up as the final product on one of these owner builder jobs. Yikes.

In either case a DIYer or owner GC, the best advise I could give is have, or get, a sense of humor, things will go much smoother. Also a 10-30% fudge factor in the cost estimates, to the high side, is about right :)

hot rod

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keith

As a rule I agree with you

We did a renovation of a 200 year old house into a B&B. The home owner was going to be the General contractor. He is an architect by day. Friday, go to my 1st job meeting with the forman and proceed to lay out the holes in the stone wall foundations we need, walls opened up ect. In my estimation it was at least few days work to open up and clean up so we could get started, with demo crews that do this all the time. He wants us to get started on the up coming monday. O.K. who is your demo team? Me and my wife he responds. Get out of here, you guys weigh about 200 lbs together soaking wet, how you going to move those boulders out of the basement? He said we will get it done you be ready on monday. I figure on monday I'll send him a bill for a wasted trip. No way this guy got it all done and then some. Must have never slept that week end. The whole job went that way. If he said it, that was that. The $ was usually on time and he was resonable to deal with on change orders Ect. So it can happen. I think that this guys secret was he would ask a question, waite for your answer and then act accordingly. No preconceived notion that we were out to get him.

J Matthers

DYI -GC-Homeowner

Yes…that pretty much describes me…but there is always more to the story. I agree that a laymen off the street should not could not GC their own home particularly in New York State, the home of the 100% liability insurance law. As a professional tradesmen you would probably run from a guy like me planning on building a 3200SF home as the GC AND doing most of the work. But then you wouldn't have known that, as a young man, I worked with a contractor friend as a carpenter, went to school for construction engineering and (life takes interesting turns) as the GM of a golf club, my REAL JOB, deal with sub-contractors on a regular basis. Along the way I have taken on several renovation projects as well. Additionally, you would not know that a number of good fiends are in the trades as well and check in on the job on a regular basis.

Building my on home has always been a dream of mine and now it is well on its way to completion. Yes, it has taken up ALL of my spare time. Yes, it has put a strain on the marriage relationship but also made it stronger. Yes, it has distracted me from my REAL job but I have great people working for me. No, I am not foolish enough to take on the things I know I can't do but with the proper guidance and a little hand holding it can be surprising what someone can do. In the end I will have the satisfaction of knowing that I built the house and that I know it was done right.

Is it smart business for a tradesman to get involved with a project like mine? I can't answer that but I can say that I pay right away, listen to the experts and check "The Wall" every day. I also add a little incentive by inviting the subs to a round of golf or two at a top 100 golf course. Seems to grease the skids.

Would I take on another project like this? I think I'll go fishing instead.

The house, by the way, has 2,450SF of radiant in slab (basement and garage), 2,800SF of Warmboard (first and second floor) and then a loft over the garage and the attic area that will be heated with Unico. The power plant is a 5 ton Hydron Module geothermal water to water unit supplying both hot and chilled water. The house is also constructed with SIP panels making a very tight energy efficient and environmentally friendly package.

John_3

Homeowner GC

I had to laugh! Divorce, No! Murder yes! 'till death do us part. We are restoring a vintage 1920's colonial. We have done all the work ourselves, including the plumbing, and for the most part all has gone well. HA! We decided to add an additional 1,000 sq. ft. 2 story addition to bring the sq. ft up around 3,000. We felt this was best left to the professionals, but we would be the GC.
It was not a pleasant experience. To try to coordinate and keep all subs on the same page is a daunting task. Nevermind the friction between my husband and myself!
It got old real fast.
We are doing some of the work ourselves, but it has gone from "Honey would you hand me the hammer" to "Where the #$%$
is the &*$##%& hammer" You get the point.

Nancy

heatboy

I would absolutely...............

work with a client like yourself. Anyone that has the will and tenacity to take on building his own home is OK with me. I just finished a project for a great client who did just that. 6,000 square feet. He and his son did everything from framing and insulation to drywall to putting down the tube. I was hired to put together the mechanical room. It took him 14 years of nights, weekends and vacations from start to certificate. Truly impressive! Even if I had the talent, I don't have the patience. It was therapy for him, though.

PS Did Unico contact you?

Warm Regards,

heatboy

"Expert in Silent Warmth"™

610.250.9885

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ScottMP

One customer

I have a customer who is doing the same thing. Remolding his house all by himself. Acting as his own GC. Involved in every step.

His house is not finished....

He is close to divorce ....

His kids are embarrassed to bring home friends ...

Somtimes its better to pick a project that dos'nt involve others.

As my wife says " I know you can do it Scott, you just don't have the time. Now give me the name of the electrician. "

Scott

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J Matthers

Time

Scott,

As I said, I love what I am doing but I would rather be fishing with the kids. On the other hand, the kids are happy to help out, if the price is right. My son tells me every day that "your doing a graet job on the house dad".

Then, on the other hand, they beg me to take a night off and spend the time with them. As you can see, I'm torn between two loves. Ain't life great!

TJ

Some GC are hacks

I had to take over the GC duties for my home from the general contractor we hired, after 9 months he finally got the place dried in - it was only a 3000 S.F home. My home is all insulated concrete forms - including the floors. At the end of 9 months after the GC was fired, I had a home without one straight plumb wall in the place that was near collapse because the GC decided he didn't need to follow the engineering plans and install the correct square non-adjustable head support columns, instead he installed common schedule 40 round adjustable head support columns that were over rated for the load they we're carrying by a factor of 3X. There was a total of 47 cubic yards of concrete in the first and second floors. The one support column that had begun to buckle, was carrying a point load of 30 tons according to the engineer. After spending an additional 32k on repairs to existing work- after the builder had already blown or embezelled 200k - work progressed on the rest of the house.
The best part of this story is when I filed a complaint with the Douglas county, Colorado building department; they wrote me back a nice letter telling me they wouldn't do anything about this builder because - 1) no one was killed or seriously maimed 2.) They need to have at least three serious complaint in a years time about a builder before they'll consider having a hearing to revoke a builders license.

I would agree that the GC role is a full time job and I would not want to do it again. Thank's for letting me vent

Mark Eatherton1

Nice to see...

so many non hydronic contractor types posting on the Wall. Thanks for your perspectives!

ME (master DIY'er)

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