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Munchkin success story

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munchkin-man
munchkin-man Member Posts: 247
in THE MAIN WALL
to be part of the Munchkin and Heat Transfer Products Inc.
Like I state in my documents letterheads and fax. On The Leading Edge Of Water Heating Technology. On the very edge we are and will continue to be for a long time to come or untill they introduce cold fusesion. JUST KIDING. The tradesmen out there that thrive on the very technology we are about are very helpfull and very appriciated for any thing they do to help and understand this era of high efficiency and technology. Se you all there. I also will have my wife with me.

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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    Got a call from a customer today. We installed a new Munchkin in his home recently and he has been chomping at the bit to get a gas bill!!!! Imagine that!! Looking forward to a gas bill!!!!

    We removed a 250,000 BTU input boiler that was connected to an old gravity system. Two existing zones and we added an indirect Phase III.

    He said that his bill for the same time last year, which was much warmer, was DOUBLE!!!!

    He said he can hardly wait for it to get even colder so he can save more money!!!

    I love it when a plan comes together!!!!

    I love it!!!

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
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    That's wonderful!!

    And it's also typical of taking a system from an inefficient solid fuel converted gravity system to the new high tech modulating condensing technology.

    Congratulations Mark. That'll look great in your portfolio of jobs.

    ME

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    Thanks ME!


    I owe you and Mr.Forbes a beer.

    You I can take care of soon enough.

    Alan will have to wait!!

    See you soon!!!!

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
  • James_2
    James_2 Member Posts: 24
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    Munckin Savings

    Great Job...keep it up. I think we are overlooking the bigger picture. We should be going 90+ on all of our jobs. This country needs do more on reducing our consumption of gas and oil. Short sited contractors and manufactures who are stuck in the 80+ market are not doing the world any favors. The 90+ equipment is also low Nox and reduces the impact on the environment. The technology is here and now, boilers will become less important as fuel cells, nickel metal halide batteries and photo cells make a move into the market place. Gas and oil boilers will not be the only heat source making hot water and radiant heat. It is closer than you think!
  • keith
    keith Member Posts: 224
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    positive message

    Good work, It feels good to help someone else and yourself at the same time. Question, Did you convert the system to a closed system or leave it gravity? Either way I am curius as to how you did the near boiler piping. I realize the Munchkin is a condensing boiler but wonder how well it will hold up with huge volumes of low temp water.
  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
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    SO many beers...

    so LITTLE time.

    I look forward to meeting you and everyone else.

    ME

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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    The system


    had been converted prior to our work and it is closed.

    We performed an energy audit at the home and found that the atmospheric appliances were back drafting due to extreme depressurization when the 1000cfm exhaust hood ran.

    The boiler was about 15 years old and the water heater was about 12, but when the customer saw the CO analyser go to 30ppm ambient he said get them out.

    We piped the Munchkin in a P/S configuration to provide the correct flow through the boiler. (In retrospect I wish I had used a buffer tank. We will use tanks in place of P/S piping from now on)

    I have several other munchkins out there connected to high volume radiator systems and they LOVE the low temp returns!!

    I have tested combustion efficiencies as high as 96.5% and I have NEVER seen one drop below 91% even when the system was running at higher temps.

    I really like this boiler!!

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
  • ChrisL
    ChrisL Member Posts: 121
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    Buffer to replace p/s piping?

    Hi Mark,

    How will installing a buffer tank provide the benefits of P/s piping? Not sure why you would eliminate p/s setup when using a buffer tank.

    I am also a Munchkin convert. Just to hear it ramp down its firing rate to load demands will make any wethead impressed!
    Thanks,

    Chris
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    P/S


    All it accomplishes is keeping the flow rate through the boiler up.

    This install was a 199m and would have done some "funny" things when only one zone was calling with a Grundfos 15-42 circ. Not enough flow through the boiler and it would short cycle.

    We just finished an install with another 199m and we used a buffer tank. Much better!!

    HTP hit the jackpot with this little baby!!!

    I like what you said about hearing it ramp down. Hear it that is until it hits low fire!! Then you better have a stethascope!

    Thanks Chris!

    Mark H


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  • corey
    corey Member Posts: 45
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    Looking forward

    to my first Munchkin gas bill as well.
    Seems like an odd thing to say... What is wrong with me?

    I even dug out my oil and electric (water heater) bills from last year in anticipation. Got my degree days data to normalize for outdoor temp. Heat loss conditions are the same, except that the old oil flue has been sealed tight. Should be a 'fair fight'.
    Now let's just see if this little dude can really pay for itself...

    -Obsessive in Mass
  • eleft(retired)
    eleft(retired) Member Posts: 98
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    convert..elect

    Mark,

    Are all these N/G?

    How are they on LP, any experience?

    I have town house up your way on electric base board.

    In Wilton, very expensive, how about payback?


    al
  • Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes
    Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes Member Posts: 1,243
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    Few Questions

    1) I'm usually very pleased to see 30 ppm CO; you must have a low threshhold...or was that a typo?

    2) Is there a place on the Munchkin to test for combustion or do you have to place it in the termination?

    3) Did you use something like an Ergomax for your buffer tank or go budget like an electric water heater?

    I'm looking forward to the time when we can buy each other a beer (import only, please); maybe in Sacramento, CA for the RPA trade show next year?

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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    Munchkins


    We have a mix out there of LP and natural. I can give you the names of customers if you want to get some of their input.

    You could plan on cutting your electric bill by half at least.

    Gimme' a call and we'll discuss your options!!!

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    CO


    HI ALAN!!!

    The CO reading that I referred to was taken in the mechanical room in the basement. 30 ppm ambient.

    We were drilling a small hole in the flue pipe and testing there and then sealing the whole with hi temp silicone. We are now testing at the termination, but this will not give an accurate efficiency reading. I have thought about putting a tee in the exhaust wtih a threaded port for testing but I am afraid of what could happen if someone removed the plug.

    We used an Aero storage tank as our buffer. It cost about $350 for a 30 gallon. It works great.

    Not sure if I'll get out to the RPA show, but I'm sure we will meet somewhere. Import only........duly noted!!!

    Take care!!

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
  • munchkin-man
    munchkin-man Member Posts: 247
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    Munchkin

    I will be at the wet head gathering. John Sawer the other Munchkin Man will be with me and we will have one of the littel gems with us. We will arive on the Friday eve before the bash see ya all there i the lounge I will have a black Munchkin golf shirt on. Please come say hi and have a stiff one with us.

    Jeff Cook, Technical Support Manager, Heat Transfer Products Inc.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    You can count on it!!


    You folks should be very proud of the Munchkin!!

    I am!

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    HOOORAYYYY!!!!!!!!


    It's finally in???

    So happy to hear that!

    Let me know how everything works!!

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"
  • molly
    molly Member Posts: 43
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    just curious about the buffer tank. how do you pipe it to the system? do you use it and still use p/s? i've heard the litterature on the munchkin recommends a 0010 taco on the boiler loop. is this to ensure good flow and prevent short cycling? i'm very new to this unit and have yet to see one installed and running.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
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    Buffer


    We used the boiler in and out taps on the Aero and sent the boiler through them.

    We pulled the system supply out of the hot water tap and the system return went into the bottom where the drain tap is.

    The Munchkin is currentky available in three sizes and each has a different recommended minimum flow rate.

    The 80m requires a Taco 007 or equivilent.
    The 140m requires a Taco 0010 or equivilent.
    The 199m requires a Taco 0011 or equivilent.

    As long as you can avoid micro-zoning with the two larger units, a buffer tank would probably not be required.

    With the new control panel that is coming out direct outdoor reset will be possible.

    I can hardly wait for that!!

    Mark H

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  • corey
    corey Member Posts: 45
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    Up and running!

    A couple of leaks and tweaks, but it's really good to be warm again.
    We were on electric space heaters through that first cold snap. Looking forward to the gas bill, but NOT the electric bill!
    I'm still holding out for the nifty new control board before going to outdoor reset. With the new controls in mind, the system is simply straight-piped. I did go down from the 190 degree supply on the old system to 160 degrees. The room temp swings are smaller, and it has no trouble keeping up with the DHW demand. Probably could go even lower.
    Another very notable change is quiet. The old oil burner used to wake me up when it kicked on, and the big old circulator resonated through all the radiators.
    "Refrigerator quiet", as they say.
    Actually, it was so quiet, the tech from the gas company thought it wasn't lighting, shutoff the gas to be safe, and called my contractor to puzzle it out.
    I'll try to get some pictures together soon.
    Thanks again for all of your help.
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