Help, air in the oo7

keith

may be different. Burnham and W.M. have the same scoop in the top of the front section but still require an air scoop on the supply header. Are you saying that you screw a 2x1 bushing in the top of the boiler? You might want to think about leaving the boiler full size and installing a spiro vent or at least a amtrol scoop.

Tom_53

air

For the last 10 years i have been putting in Utica Starfire boilers, Taco feed valve, oo7, X-trol, Taco fv, Taco auto vent on air eliminator on boiler top piped with a nipple, bell coupling & vent. I install pumping away as in Dans book pumping away, page 59, but i use circs. not zone valves. After doing them the same for 10 years with no problems, the last 2 months these jobs have been comming back in for air in the oo7. Customer calls for no heat & a smell. The smell is the hot oo7. I purge it & its fine. I have had this same call at 5 or 6 recent installations.
These are 3 & 4 section boilers. I had one job come back 3 times. I removed the flow valve plugg & installed another auto-vent, purged, increase presure. No slab leaks.
Thanks, Your thoughts appriciated, From Jack

Mark Hunt

Jack


Could you tell us or show us how you have been placing the 007's? Are they verticle, horizontal?

Mark H



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Big Ed

Air Trap

I see this call alot , the problem is enough air will trap below the flow valve weight to fill the circulators waterway with air . The impeller will spin not grabbing any water , so your not getting any pressure drop. Usually if you don't give enough hozontal run before a airscoop some air will bypass and collect in the next zone inline. Sometimes if you do not purge enough post installation or after a system drop down , then leave too much air the system to remove it could happen too .

One way sure way to correct this problem is to pipe the zones down from the hozontal riser.

P.S........When I come in to this problem after someone's installation and see a series of problems ,I too add a float bleeder of the plugged side of the flow valve.

Tom_53

air

the boiler tap is 2" & pipied as follows.
2x1 bushing,
1x4 nip,
1x1/2 t for purge,
1" close nip,
1" ball valve,
1" close nip,
1"x1/2 t for feed valve,
1" close nip,
1" t for x-trol and or additional zones,
1" close nip,
oo7,
1"x4" nip,
1" flow valve,

Thats every fitting from top of boiler to flow valve.
Air eliminator is built internaly on the Utica, 3/4 tap,piped 3/4x3" nip, 3/4x1/8 bell coup.,taco air vent.

Hope this makes it easier to picture.
Thanks, From Jack

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

Keith's right

spirovents eliminated my air problems. bob

Tom_53

Thanks for your responce,,,but

after putting in a couple of hundred of boilers the same way with no Spiro vent and no problems something changed. Your suggestion adding a spiro vent is a good idea and thats what i will do in the future. I just can not figure out why this is happening now, in the last 2 months, & all the installs 10 years prior are ok.
Have a great day,
From Jack..li

Unknown

Same with us

After installing probably over 1000 Peerless , using almost the same piping techniques as you do , we hardly ever hear of an air problem . We use the built in air elimination tapping also - no airscoops . The only thing different we do is pipe the feed valve into the return . When we purge we know the zone is free of air when it comes back hot . And we purge over 20 psi. We occasionally see air trapped between the circ and flowvalve . Sometimes we try to loosen the flowvalve nut to get it out - or purge again . One thing I just recently found out was that Taco wants 12 inches between the circ and flowvalve vertically . All these years and I finally read the instructions on the box .

Are you finding the problem on baseboard zones , monflow , or both ?

heatman101

Why????

when a $30 air scoop or a $100 taco vortech or similar can save a call back or two.... why take the chance????
It's better to do it right the frist time,, after you come back the customer is gunshy and is always loking for trouble then.

Tom_53

Ron

Do you also put the purge valve on the return? It may be a good idea to get the feed valve T and maybe even the ball valve off the feed & put on the return to make room for 12" nipples. I do not mind adding more air elimination, but why?
It really bothers me not being able to figure this out.
I will have to look closer at the next picture you send in. I know you do beautiful work.
From Jack

Tom_53

Heatman

You are absolutely correct, that would solve the problem, but after putting in boilers for 25 years & never having this problem there is somthing wrong. This air problem only started 2 months ago. I will try to past some pictures. Thanks for responding.
From Jack

Unknown

I hardly do this

but I try to put a valve before the circ , on the boiler side , to isolate the whole zone if it needs work . Usually we just install the valve after the flowvalve . What about adding the valve between the circ and flowvalve , using two 6 inch nipples ? But to tell you the truth , we hardly ever run into flow or air problems , and we use a close nipple between the circ and flowvalve - you know how room is critical on the Island .

We also put a separate valve on the returns for each zone , to lock it off if needed . If its more than 3 zones , we make a common purge . Thank you for the compliment Jack . Are you going to post some pics of your work too ?

Unknown

Room is very scarce

for heating equipment on Long Island . Theres never enough room to fit in an airscoop that needs 18 inches horizontal before you can add the circs . I wish someone would come out with an airscoop that fits in the vertical run .

Seeing that we dont use airscoops much , on a new boiler install , will a Vortec or Spirovent get all the air out of , say a monoflow zone ? If not , and you have to go up there and bleed the rads or convectors , but the house is leak free , and the zones are pumping away , do you think the airscoop is critical ?