We (still) have a long way to go.....(PAH)

Dave Yates (PAH)

and extending our education to the flooring contractors. Why? Thanks for asking!

Job we're wrapping up has several thousand sq ft of 3/4" oak over radiant. The HO couldn't find ONE SINGLE flooring contractor familiar with radiant, much less willing to warrant the flooring. He turned to the Hardwood Flooring Council for help and advice and they too were of little help. Once we became involved, it became our job to educate all involved. Still - no flooring warranty - HO will be comfortable heat wise, but has no comfort level as a flooring consumer. He was determined to have both hardwood and radiant. How many homeowners find themselves in this dilemma and feel they can only have one or the other? This has got to change.

Now comes a HO who has a 1940's black iron in concrete radiant system has decided to tear out several rooms of carpeting & install Mannington's 5-layer Silver series engineered hardwood. The local distributor and installers have NO CLUE. I had to call their 800 customer service number to place an inquiry. Quick response, but no direct answer to my questions. On page 3 or 4 of their tech lit fax - there it was - a single paragraph stating this product was compatable with radiant heating and max floor surface temps should not exceed 90 degrees. OK, I undestand the implications of that, but does the HO or the flooring contractor? Why is this not in the showroom literature the customer receives? No referral to the RPA or Find A Contractor on The Wall, so the value is minimal at best unless we see it.

What do we need to do? In conjunction with the certification the RPA now offers, I'd like to see a multi-tiered license (much like the EPA refrigerant cert). Let radiant hardwood flooring installations be one piece of that puzzle - a stand alone certification if that's all you want or need. Then, let's add a hardwood flooring installer's certificate. How? By attending (The RPA trainer) THEIR conventions, conducting training and testing. Tie that together with inclusion of both the mechanical and flooring contractors on web sites of the orginizations involved and all our HO needs to do is pick one from each list to have a perfect blend of contractors who will start from the same page. A win/win/win situation.

How about it RPA board members? I suggested this to LD months ago. Color me frustrated.

Why not a "Hardwood" ZCP that has a computer control that asks you to input where you are located (to determine design day), what kind of flooring, subflooring, installation method utilized and then automatically set the water delivery temps? Plug & play!

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Good ideas, Dave

The Oak Flooring Association holds several intensive floor installer classes every year. Two weeks long, at their headquarters in Memphis. They get installers from around the world attending! radiant is covered in their classes.

Mickey Moore, tech director, of the Oak Flooring Association, has presented many seminars for the RPA over the years, has a good website for homeowners and installers. In fact since the RPA started working with the various flooring associations virtually every one mentions radiant floor dos and don't on their web pages.

The RPA is working with all the various flooring manufactures including wood, vinyl, carpet and pad, and the tile folks. We have, and continue to send RPA staff and board members to their seminars and presentations at every opportunity to form alliances whenever they are acceptable to the idea.

Remember you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink! Offering training and certification only works when the installers, dealers, etc attend!!

We have done a lot, RPA wise, to involve the floor covering manufactures and installers. Have you read your RPA Radiant Flooring Guide yet! 40,000 copies of that are going out, and you can order additional copies with your company bio and name on it. An excellent guide for info and links to the flooring industries. Purchase 100 copies and send them to installers, archs, builders, homeowners, etc. in your area. You can start the education process from you very own office next week

I think the RPA has done a good job addressing the flooring issues from day one. As I page back to the very first issues (7/94) of the RPA newsleter, rarely does an issue go out without some info on floor coverings and the "radiant link." As you stated this is critical to the radiant industry.

You'd be suprised how many manufactures are opposed to the RPA certifing practices and installation procedures regarding their products. Not as easy as it may seem getting an agreement along these lines, on who is best to present the training and certification.

Sounds like YOU need a seat on the RPA board, I'd be glad to help along those lines

hot rod

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Dave Yates (PAH)

Well......

I agree the RPA has been outstanding in almost all areas. But I also feel this needs to be pursued. If only a handfull of flooring and radiant installers want to take the extra measure of training, so be it. But if the trained and certified installers begin getting more work because of the certification, others will get on board. Won't happen overnight.

A seat on the board? Dan Foley and others have said they're planning on nominating me for that duty & I'm not opposed on two conditions.

First, as the new Scoutmaster of Troop 20, my duties consume great gobs of my "spare" time. Two years is my term of serving in that capacity because my son will be finished by then. I'll remain active at the district level, but no sense being in the Troop if my children are no longer involved. My local plumbing association is expecting my involvement at that time too (meet on same night). Priorities. As the JC's always admonished: family first; work second; & JC's last.

Second issue. I can not, in good concience, be on the board of an orginization that promotes open system construction. If that remains in the standards, I will not accept a seat on the RPA board. My belief that open systems provide an ideal breeding ground for Legionella bacteria grows stronger every day. The RPA is setting itself up for inclusion in any lawsuit that will arise from any case of Legionellosis if the affected person(s) have an open system and Legionella bacteria are found to be present. Such a suit will likely bankrupt the RPA.

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heatboy

Get on the board.............

and change it! You have my vote, PAH.

Warm Regards,

heatboy

"Expert in Silent Warmth"™

610.250.9885

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PAH

You might have a better chance of "righting those wrongs" at the board level, as opposed to shouting from the bleachers.

I understand your busy schedule, and won't pressure you however Your priorities are sound, in my opinion.

There are provisions for committees and special action groups also. This could be done from the comforts of your home without travel commitments. A group has a much better chance of effecting change than a individual, especially when asking for a change to the standards manual that took years to create and get consensus on!

hot rod

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leo g_12

funny

how different things are after some miles are covered! here in my neck of the woods, the hardwood flooring over radiant has only been an issue once with me. we found some guidelines in the hardwood man.s' lit, and the homeowner was satisfied. almost every heating job we do now has at least 30% of the floor covering as hardwood. toch wood (or should that be hardwood?), no problems yet.

leo g

RB_2

Mickey Moore, tech director, of the Oak Flooring Association,

HR,

Is this the first or second winter for the Moore Residence aka the RPA Hardwood Project...have you heard how everything is running?

...and I'd second any motion to have Dave Yates sit on a board or committee when he has time to commit...and that goes for a lot of great industry participants wanting to volunteer ...I've got a hunch many contributors here at Dan's site will someday decide to bring your talents and opinions to the benifit of the membership...in fact we're looking for a few more future chairman or chairwoman for the Snow/Ice Melting Committee...any takers...?

RB