Atrium heating (CaliforniaRadiant)

Paul Pollets

Alan, you may want to consider some vertical Runtal wall panels

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Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Any ideas

I took this picture yesterday of an 8 year old house in the Oakland Hills. They first built a large deck that was later enclosed to make an atrium and since it was west facing, they figured it would get enough solar gain for heating. This did not turn out to be the case; on most winter days, the atrium is unusable since it gets too cold. The owners want to change that.

How would you go about heating it?

Site conditions:

- all the windows are single glazed glass

- 20' high windows

- tile floors; open space below, but the framing has been covered with stucco

- the dimensions are about 10' wide by 60' long

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Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

A picture

looking out at afternoon comute traffic and a view of the SF Bay..

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Eric

glazing

I hate glazing for heating. Here in alaska its tough to keep large glazing from condensation even with space heated comfortably. I noticed some cloudyness on glass in photo. Washing window with warm air works the best. Here we even try on big glass to use dry unhumidified outside air. and have seen ducts soffited in mullions.

For your CA glass.

Is there space between the glass and the top of the wall of the house? where you could set a cabinet unit heater and wash glass down toward floor. Baseboard in front of the glass always works great but blocks view.

Paul Pollets_2

I'd

pull the tile and redo the flooring with 6" loops. You'll also likely need supplemental heating and as you run the project thru a heatloss, it will tell all. I'd probably use wall panel rads to supplement. If the owner doesn't want to pull the tile...well, punt.

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Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Tile floors

Looks like I'll have to punt. Those tile floors won't be coming up soon. Panel radiators are my choice and they will have to be big ones to cut the chill in that room, even if we are in California.

Luckily, there is enough wall space for mounting. The piping will have to be exposed, but the radiators can have bottom tappings and they can paint the piping.

The last hurdle is pricing. The owner drives a Range Rover and has a Ferrari in the garage, but I get the feeling that he's looking for something cheap....and I don't do cheap.

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Larry Ticknor

Underfloor

Alan,

My first thought would be to try to go underfloor. If need be remove stucco to get to the joists.

The second idea would be to put wall panels up to the bottom of the window around the outside of the house, in the same line as ME used in the habitat for humanity house. Something like a 2x6 wall with a nice hardwood 1x? on top so it becomes a functional shelf for plants, drinks, etc.

I would approach if from how many btu's could I add from each of these methods and how many extra days of sitting out there the customer could receive. Time of day is important, if the customer only wants to sit out there first thing in the morning, that could be different than sitting there late in the afternoon as far as how many Btu's you might need. Anyway, I'd want to try to get big radiant areas, as with the floor, because I think physically that might feel warmer on fringe days than baseboard on fringe days.

I'd also recommend adding shades to all the windows (if they aren't already there -- can't tell from the picture). Pulling those at night would retain some heat and they could open what they need in the morning.

Just some thoughts. Let us know what you do here.

Larry Ticknor

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Moot Point

The architect just called back; my price is more than the owner water to spend. They're going to go with some sore of electric unit heater.

At least I got to see the Ferrari in the garage.

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Dan Peel

Some heater!

That's definitely going to be some electric heater to match those losses and actually deliver comfort. Something in the wind storm variety? Enjoy.... Dan

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kevin

well....

as Arnold S. sort of said..."He'll be baack!" when the bill for the electric is in. kpc

J.C.A.

Hey Alan,

Is that on top of the hill a little past Montclair. ? Top of the hill past Snake ...Bear mountain Rd./ or something like that ? My Uncle used to look at almost the same view, maybe a little more to the left of where you are .

Chris , Marblehead , Ma.

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Grizzly Peak Blvd.

Yeah, you got the location right on, Chris. That's right in the middle of where the fire hit 12 years ago; burned 3,000 houses down.

As far as the heating system for this house, thanks for all your suggestions; it's too bad I couldn't incorporate them. Sometimes it's too much money for the owner or they don't think heating should cost so much; to tell you the truth, no matter what you tell them, it's hard for them to experience modern hydronic heating vs. everything else out there.

All the best,

Alan

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Earthfire

Flash

Flash usually wins over substance. Always is enough money for show , but then every so often along comes the average person that wants comfort and efficiency and is willing to spend what it takes to get a fair and honest installation . Those are the times it feels good to be in this buisness and that makes up for all the baloney!

chris smith

non hydronic

how about radiant propane/natural heaters, will cost more than elect but opperating cost should be much lower, and install cost will be less than hydronic

chris smith
porter maine