The Refractory

October Home

I have read, with interest, the article entitled "The inner chamber. . ." in the July 2002 Oilheating magazine. Page 14. It talks about the wisdom of preventative maintenance and how important the refractory is and how it should be brought to the attention of the homeowner when the refractory is cracked, worn, a mess.

And then I wondered why the word refractory wasn't mentionted in Dan's "42 Opinions on when and why to replace that old boiler - furnance." I did a word search. So isn't it an important consideration when one is considering the condition of the boiler? And is the refractory the reddish orange stuff that I found flaked at the bottom of the firebox of the boiler I inspected yesterday?

Thank you for your comments.

Arlene Puentes
www.octoberhome.com
". . . because its better to know."

Robert O'Connor

Refactory

Refactory bricks and cement haven't been used in residential boilers in over 40 yrs.While burner efficiencies in these boilers can be obtained in the mid 80's overall efficiencies are very low.

So,a residential boiler with refractory would be very old and inefficient. These inefficiecies would come from jacket loss, standby loss,because of high water content etc.

Modern residential boilers use cerafelt or kawool liners or no chamber material. This is relatively inexpensive to replace,usually.

Regards,

Robert O'Connor

Big Ed

Chamber wear

What wears a brick chamber is moisture. If the brick sucks up moisture and then the fire kicks in , the trapped water will break in to steam and burst pieces of the chamber off. Just like concrete and rocks explode with heat is implied. Back to burners 101 they use to state in the learners manual ,that a chamber needs to be "candled" , heat the chamber slowly to dry it out before letting it run under a normal operation..... Meaning turn the burner on for a few min then shut it down and let it cool, repeat action through several cycles.....

The Red Stuff ? Could be a sulfur or radio active residue , Don't know what it is but it's messy, don't get it on the ladies rug either:) ,and don't breath it in , suck it up with you vac.....

P.S. Radio Active Residue ? Read in National Geograhic years back that radio active waste was once disposed of through the fuel oil stocks....... Kinda Scary isn't it...... twitch-twitch ;0 ......................................... Run Forest ! Run!

Robert O'Connor

Eutechtic

Iwas told by a very impresssive sounding individual from Buderus once that this red stuff was called generically called "eutechtic".

I'm not sure if that was English or German.

He was proud of the fact that this didn't occur in his boiler because of the cast alloy Buderus uses.

I don't know if he was having me on or not.

Either way you still have to vacuum it.

Regards,

Robert O'Connor

John@Reliable

Refractory

Arlene, Most home heating systems don't use refractory in the combustion chamber today.Most units today use a pre formed ceramic fiber which is a use item. Most will last 10 to 15 years before replacement is needed. Replacement cost under $300.00 - $350.00. No need to replace boiler. That red stuff is left-over soot , scale etc. that has not been removed from chamber and the flame temp. has burnt what was combustable out of it and the ash is left.Hope this helps.

Art Pittaway_2

Webster sez

"eutectic, (1) of an alloy or solution: having the lowest melting point possible. (2)of or relating to a eutectic alloy or solution or it's melting or freezing point."
There's a company makes specilized welding and brazing rod called Castilen-Eutectic (spell??) used some of there stuff a long time ago on aluminum, it worked good. I think the guy from Buderus is still laughing....sorry.

bluenose_2

Chamber/Refractory

Wouldn't you consider the pre-formed ceramic chamber to be considered refractory material? I do. And I totally agree with the burned soot, nasty stuff to get off of floor when mixed with water

John@Reliable

Technically

Technically yes it is. But when I think of refractory I think about firebrick,soft refractory brick, cement, etc. Hard stuff not something you can break apart with two fingers thats all.

John@Reliable

Eutechtic

72% silver 28% copper was found in ancient Greek & Roman coins.

October Home

Chamber/Refractory

> Wouldn't you consider the pre-formed ceramic

> chamber to be considered refractory material?


Yes. That's what I was thinking. I spoke to the author of the "Inner Chamber" in Oilheating July 2002, John Certuse, of Industrial Services & Engineering in MA.

What I want is to be able to identify what I should see when I'm looking in the firebox. I want to know when I should recommend servicing. If the refractory is a "use item", as stated in this thread, then I want to be able to say when it should be evaluated "by a qualified heating and cooling technician." AND, since Mr. Certuse has convinced me that this is an important matter, I'd like the "qualified heating and cooling technician." to know what I'm talking about.

Is this a preventative maintenance matter that is taught to technicians?

As for the red-brown stuff. It's whitish on one side redish brown on the other side and it's flaking and parts of it are stuck to the metal wall, parts of it are on the firebox floor. I was wondering if these are pieces of the refractory.

THANK YOU ALL for your responses.

Best wishes, Arlene Puentes
www.octoberhome.com

John@Reliable

John@Reliable

\"by a qualified heating technician\"

Hi Arlene, The white you see is from a lean mix of oil&air which isn't always bad. Look for cracks/holes and missing sections of chamber in rear,curling on sides if any of these chamber replacement is needed.Red and soot on heat exchanger will need to be brushed and vac. which means front of boiler needs to come off.Usually when this is needed I would also replace chamber, taking apart and cleaning will usually damage the chamber anyway.We will be doing some chambers in a week or so and I will post some before and after pictures for you. P.S. "by a qualified heating and cooling technician. "Is this a preventative maintenance matter that is taught to technicians? I'm in ma. and find new techs can tell me code but need alot of OJT to really work on them Hope this helps for now.

Steamhead

Most newer burners

do a good job of staying in tune through a season. But it might be a good idea to open the inspection port several times a season, while the burner is running to observe its operation (be careful, it might be very hot!). If anything about the flame has changed since it was cleaned and tuned (as if it burns with a lot of smoke) or you start to see cracks in the chamber lining ("refractory") call your service company to check it out.



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October Home

> Look for

> cracks/holes and missing sections of chamber in

> rear,curling on sides if any of these chamber


THANK YOU. As a home inspector, that's just the kind of knowledge I need. In particular, I inspected a Peerless Oil Fueled Boiler recently. It was green, the Model & Serial Numbers were so faint I could not read them. I tried! I DID make out "JOT" and I was told that their JOT line was green. Inside the firebox there was nothing. Metal. That's all. It seemed to me that the burner flame was shooting at steel. I wrote in my report that the client should have the boiler inspected by a "qualified heating technician." and sited the refractory as an area of concern.

> We will be doing some chambers in

> a week or so and I will post some before and

> after pictures for you.

I would be in your debt.

> Hope this helps for now.

Indeed it does. Thank you again.

Bluenose_3

Peerless

Peerless, green , JOT, have only a kao-wool blanket floor and maybe a target wall if my memory serves me correctly.

Unknown

Combustion Chambers

I can suggest on the oil side a book written by George Lanthier of Firedragon Enterprises. On the gas side I have a manual on Conversion Burners which talks about combustion chambers. If you will e-mail me I will give you ordering information. I have also recently had some home inspectors attend my seminars on Gas Hheating Systems. One from Storch commented " I never knew there was this much to know about heating systems". Suggest some good training to help you with inspections. By the way the red stuff can be the result of Flourinated Hydrocarbons due to a contaminated air supply in the boiler room. If the discolorization was green it would indicate Chorlinated Hydrocarbons. Flourinated from spray propellants as one example, cholorinated from bleachs as another example. The white powdery stuff that is sometimes on boiler surfaces is called fly ash. It is some times the result of high levels of carbonic acid in the chamber which acts to clean the surfaces and leave deposit. This is often resulting from poor cleaning of boiler surfaces. That fly ash can also get in the chimney and eventually reach a level which plugs the flue. It is most prevalent when oil has been converted to gas. The gas flue products which have high concentration of water vapor which has a very high acidic level will literally clean the inside surfaces of the chimney and cause the fly ash to accumualte at the bottom. If not cleaned it will reach all the way up to the flue entrance into the chimney. I have seen this happen within a year of changing from oil to gas. Hope this helps.

John@Reliable

Peerless Chamber

Hi Arlene, You were right about that JOT boiler. That unit has a target wall, floor blanket , and front. One thing I look for on this set-up is, on the front plate appox. 4" on both left and right side of blast tube assy. you should see either a screw head or nut.This holds front part of chamber onto metal plate if new looking and tight chamber is fairly new, missing or loose inside of bolt is burnt off. Will need some chamber work, the front can fall in front of flame and cause smoke , soot , plugged boiler.Check with a supply house and get a list for Lynn Products. They make combustion chamber replacement kits,this list would give you a heads up if they make one for the unit your looking at than it should have one. Hope this helps.

John1961

Defination of refractory

Hi

I wrote the article mentioned and my intention was that refractory be it made of ceramic fiber, brickwork etc... is... "refractory".

John