Burnham and Riello

Unknown

from anyone who uses the V8 line and Riello Burners . Our company is switching to the V8 , and some questions came up which my supervisors asked me to post here .

When using them together , have you heard of customer complaints of noise ? And have there been any troubles with setting up the burner to run clean on a new install .

Our company is a big believer in Riello , and just want to have the same trouble free installs that we have had with Peerless in the past , Which I am sure that Burnham will give us . Thanks for any help .

Bob Murray

I just recently...

Installed a Burnham V8 wit a Riello. I typically install Buderus boilers wit Riello, But this particular job required a tankless, so I went with the V8.
Yes, you do get the typical "jet engine" noise of the Riello as you are probably familiar with, but you just tell the customer ahead of time what to expect for noise and they will not be surprised. Riello burners are typically louder than their american counterparts, but I have not had a problem with acceptance as long as the customer is aware before they hear it for the first time. I tell them this is a small price to pay for the superior performance they will get from the Riello. I swear by them. It would be nice if they were a little quieter though, eh??

FYI, I bought the Riello from Burnham all set up for the V8. Installation was flawless, and their were no surprises.
Go for it.
Bob Murray
Yankee P+H
Tuftonboro, NH

Bob Murray

By the way...

Are you aware of the masses of cracked blocks Burnham has had in the last few years?? I believe this problem could have been prevented if the boilers were piped with a bypass to prevent thermal shock. I piped the last one I did that way. I hope that will do the trick. Anyone else have problems with Burnhams letting loose??

Bob

Unknown

Bob

I think the cracked sections were a problem with the V7 line - the V8 has thicker cast iron sections now .

We currently use the Peerless WBV boiler , and with a Riello it is pretty quiet. Which is important when the boiler is in the kitchen or under the stairs . I should look into getting a decibel meter . Thanks Bob .

Robert O'Connor

Believe it or not

I have a V8-4 in my house on a SS II Powerventer with a Beckett.

Set up to factory specs I found it to be louder Than I would like. I deviated from the reccomened nozzle and was able to quiet it down.

The SS II is amazingly quiet. When I bought the house I thought that was the first thing I was gonna change. Nice job Tjerlund.

Unknown

Bob,

The issue with the sections encountering stress cracks was with the V7 series of boilers. The likelyhood of that happening was corrected back in 1997 and we have a warranty program in place to handle these occurances. The V8 boiler is a completely redesigned section assembly with intermediate sections that are a full 1" wider. These were also designed with careful attention to eliminate all of the possible things that can cause stress to occur. Yes, a boiler bypass can help to eliminate stress conditions within the boiler as does down-firing to more closely match the firing rate to the required load. Hope this helps and thanks for using our products!

Glenn Stanton

Burnham Corp,

Jed_2

Glenn, why don't U.S.

Boiler Manufacturers, with domestic foundries, see the light and start using GG20(or similar) formulas?

Jed

Big Ed

Jet Noise

Watch out where you place the draft regulator , if you place it too close to the boiler you will get more of a roar noise . And another tip for a Riello don't over size the burner if you can help it. If the air gate is more "fuller" open you will prevent that Riello air turbulence noise.... Meaning if you need a .80 gph input use a F3 rather then a F5 .

Big Ed

Jet Noise

Watch out where you place the draft regulator , if you place it too close to the boiler you will get more of a roar noise . And another tip for a Riello don't over size the burner if you can help it. If the air gate is more "fuller" open you will prevent some of that Riello air turbulence noise.... Meaning if you need a .80 gph input use a F3 rather then a F5 .

Unknown

Yes

In the Peerless boiler , we use the F3 whenever possible , particularly in the Levitt houses . I remember once we installed a Weil Mclain Gold 4 section with a Riello F5 in the kitchen of a Levitt . The customer was some sort of engineer and insisted on this combo . Well , when that boiler lit off for the 1st time , the " engineer " was shocked at the noise level , and wanted to know what we could do about it . After stating that it was his idea for this boiler - which was oversized by his design - we told him installing the quieter F3 would under-fire the boiler . I guess he got used to the jet engine takeoff in his kitchen - just like people get used to living near airports .

Unknown

Glenn

Im not sure if this is done , but when a boiler manufacturer tests different burners in their boilers , do they check the decibel output for each type of burner ?

Unknown

Could you explain

what GG20 stands for ?

kevin

burners

I have been very impressed w/ the improvements that Carlin has made to their EZ-1 burner. I have almost started using them exclusively on my oil setups.Even over a Riello on a Buderus for my own house. Very quiet.
P.S.-I think Glenn is referring to "Grey" or flexible cast iron. Like Buderus or Viessman produces.

Unknown

The testing

is actually done in the burner manufactureer's laboratories Ron. The firing configurations for each boiler/burner combination is established by them for our equipment. The jet noise that was referred to is a characteristic of the Riello, as well as other burners. The burner cover they provide does away with much of the noise. I believe that what you are referring to is combustion noise within the chamber of the boiler. This noise can vary from one job to another based on draft conditions, location of barometric damper and other conditions. We do test for proper levels of combustion noise and they are all pretty much about the same. Burner preference is a geographical thing. You may find Beckett to be popular in one part of a state and Carlin or Riello to be in demand in another part of the same state.

The V8/Riello configuration that we provide has been out there for some time now and has been well accepted by the folks that have been installing them. The same goes for the Carlin EZ burner and Beckett AFG configurations. The cover on the Beckett burner does a good job of reducing the mechanical and air noise of the burner just as the Riello does.

Although I am no expert in metallurgy, I believe what Jeff is referring to is the different formulations of cast iron that are used today. All cast iron is flexible by it's makeup. The silica content of the iron is what gives it much of it's flexibility and our content is equal to or greater than that of any manufacturer from across the pond. Hope this helps.

Glenn

Steve Eayrs

V7 Burnhams

You mentioned a warranty program on the Burnham V7 boilers w/ cracked castings. What kind of program are we talking about? I recently replaced a 6 year old V7, w/ a V8, (for a customer) and am wondering if I got what I was suppost to get. No V7 blocks were availabe in any decent time frame, so they sold me (at regular price)the V8, and gave a little under $1100 credit to my account.....and I still had to pay freight to get it here! The customer had to pay my labor and the remainder of the boiler.
Thanks in advance for responding.

Steve Eayrs

Unknown

Steve

Check your e-mail for an at length description of how the replacement procedure works. Hope this helps.

Glenn

Unknown

Ron Jr.

The testing of burners for our boilers is done by the repective burner manufacturer. They test each model and size for the best nozzle and air setup respective to their particular burner. The combustion decibel ratings are all pretty close in range from one manufacturer to the next. One burner may vary a little from another as to mechanical and air movement sound levels. The Riello burners do seem to have a bit of air movement noise that is corrected very well with the cover. The Beckett burner with cover also helps drop these levels down a bit.

There are many folks using the V8/Riello boiler-burner combination that we provide and are very satisfied with the combustion sound levels. These sound levels can vary from job to job based on draft, oil transmission lines and placement of the barometric damper. Burner preference can vary based on geographic location. Some states have a strong preference for Beckett in one area while a strong desire for Riello or Carlin exists within another area of the state. We do pay attention to combustion sound levels. If any adverse reports come in from the field, we will make jobsite visits with the burner manufacturer to address the individual cases. All in all, the combustion sound levels have been quite good Ron.

I do not profess to be an expert in metallurgy. but the post above was referring to some differences in the way we formulate the cast iron here as opposed to overseas. Cast iron is an extremely flexible product by nature. This is why it is a preferred product for heating boilers and vehicle engines. It is the Silica content of cast iron theat gives it it's flexibility and our Silica content is equal to, if not greater than any of the manufacturer's from the other the pond. Hope this helps.

Glenn

Unknown

Very nice to hear

that the sound levels are just about the same for each burner . This is a big concern that my bosses wanted me to ask about on this site . It would usually not be an issue in most houses we install in , but we do quite a few where the boiler is within close proximity of the living part of a house .

We do ask the customers if the new boiler and burner sound quieter than the old one , and most customers do think they are less noisy . Thanks again Glenn for the info .