Feed back on this piping arrangement Please.

d mireault

I was recently asked to look at an existing system that's got a few problems and was wondering about the feedback I might get from some of the guys that know. Any comments?

John@Reliable

Piping

How about cut it all out and start over,that's what I do when I get this type of call

Steamhead

What kind of trouble

does this system have?

I can see one thing wrong- the circulator appears to be on the return line, pumping toward the boiler and compression tank connection. It should be on the supply, pumping away from the tank. The tank should be connected to the air separator so this will be the point of lowest pressure in the system, and also the "point of no pressure change".

For a more detailed explanation of this and why it's so important, go to the Books and More page of this site and order a copy of Dan's book "Pumping Away". Dan does a far better job of explaining this than I could hope to.

The zone valves are a matter of opinion. I prefer an individual circulator for each zone, since this will maintain proper flow thru the zone regardless of what the other zones are doing. That said, there are many installations out there using zone valves that work fine.

Tell us more about this system. Is it completely radiant, or does it have some baseboard and radiators mixed in?

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Frank_5

this is what I see...........

the walls behind all that pipe has not been properly painted, and that lavander colored cylinder thing is upside down, or the mfg put the label on the wrong end! Pictures may be worth a thousand words, but in this case a personal visit is the only way to cure any problem with this system. There are too many variables involved to give anyone instructions in how to fix a problem here. There are certain basic things that have been done not according to the book, but there are too many fine points in installing systems such as this that just can't be properly addressed in this type of forum.

hr

Creative wiring and

soldering to say the least. Looks like the installer ran short of sweat ball valves!

If the expansion tank pictured is in fact connected to the hydronic system the pressure needs to be adjusted. They come precharged to 40 or 45 psi, I believe.

Not the best mounting position, as Frank mentioned. Actually the circulator should have the motor turned with the wiring junction at the top. Looks like a high head pump from this angle, is it sized correctly?

I too am curious as to the complaints. Hard to tell without a "bigger picture"

Hope it's not just a witch hunt Can't be too old of an install with those Freedom Flanges.

hot rod

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d mireault

The history with this system include the pump having been replaced three times I'm told. Air has been bled a number of times. Apperently it's been tough to get circulation on the manifolds. Any thoughts regarding the air locks that might be created by going straight down off the zone valves? Your feedback appreciated. Thanks

Floyd

Can you get..

backed up enough to get a pic. of the whole system at once????
Seems to me that there may be more there then what can be seen in those pics.

Also, why is the valve going to the manifold half shut???
Why does the pipe size reduce going to the pump???
And, get the right exp. tank on there, it probably has the relief valve
screwwed up already.....change that too while your at it.
Does it have car anti freeze in the system???? That'll take out pumps
in a minute!!!!

Floyd

Dan Peel

Potable system?

This appears to be a potable system without pressure reduction, LWCO or backflow. Is the circulator that's currently in place a bronze circ or was the latest replacement what was on the truck? Making air and eating circs is typical of combining unvented "horseshoe" piping off the Z valves and trying to vacuum the water in from an o2 rich domestic supply. Moving the circ and flipping the expansion tank (to accept water instead of air), being sure both are the proper size, static pressure and material for the whole job and adding some autobleeds should cure most of the flow problems apparent in the views you've supplied. Enjoy.....Dan

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Donny

pump relocation

as mentioned in earlier posts, its tough to solve problems when your not there. But using your last photo, I would think about removing the vent tee and the vertical pipe down to the sweat coupling, sweat the pump outlet flange there in place of the coupling. Swing the uppermost 90* ell to face you then plumb in an air seperator with an automatic vent installed in the top, hang the compression tank off the bottom and plug the old tank location. I don't know if this will solve your problems but it will definately help the system operate better. Have a safe Labor Day!

Dave Yates (PAH)

For starters...

Isolate the potable and hydronic waters.

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Mark Eatherton1

Your systems sucks...

air into it every time the pump starts up. What everyone prior to this post said is true. I suspect that there are a lot of other inherent problems in this system. In order to make a good overall recomendation, we need to see more of how the system is laid out, what kind of tube is being used (O2 barrier versus non barrier tube), how the tubing was installed (staple up, in slab, suspended, sandwiched) and the heat source. Simply moving the expansion tank connection would get rid of the air problem, but as I said, I'll bet theres more than meets the eye.

We're here to help, tell us more and provide us with a piping diagram if you will.

ME

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d mireault

A little more info on this system. Its a geothermal system/radiant floor with a heat exchanger/ heat pump. The geo-thermal portion is glycol and the floor is 100% water. The potable water presure tank has raised the questions of operating pressures for me. There is no pressure gauges on the system and I have not had the chance as yet to check the actual working pressure on either side. The radiant floor side has "burned" two pumps and is on it's third. The space does not recover properly in cool wheather and the "air locks" in the piping I suspect is partially responsible for restricting or blocking the lines to the manifolds. The locations of the pump relative to the presure tank is also a concern. I'm told there is no heat-loss analysis available so it's possible the heat pump isn't sized correctly. Again, any feedback is appreciated.

don_9

heatexchanger?

are you saying he used a heatexchanger and not a buffer tank.
I thought I seen a bradford white tank.

Mark Eatherton1

Again...

in order to completely help you, we need to know a LOT more things about the system. I suspect a second floor manifold with an automatic air vent that's acting like a vacuum break and dumping lots of air into the systme. That in and of itself would introduce enough oxygen to kill numerous pumps etc. Is it eating expansion tanks too? If it is non barrier tube, which I suspect, it may have other problems.

So far, the pump appears to be too big and high headed, it's pumping towards the expansion tank, the expansion tank is made for potable water and is usualy pumped up to a higher pressure than most closed loop systems demand. And you need to get some gauges on that puppy so's you can see whats going on.


More info please. Make us a drawing if you can, even if it's by hand and scanned into your PC.

ME

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