HEY ! (bigugh)

Gary Fereday

Hotrod, Mark E. and you other floor tumblers, How come you do not use the reverse spiral method of piping. All I ever see is the serpentine style. Seems to me that the short radius of serpentine loops, and the many loops there are, would be a factor in the flow volume compared to the reverse spiral method.
It is said that reverse spiral uses more pipe, and is more difficult to install. I find that hard to believe. With a poured floor covering the pipe, reverse spiral allows the inlet and outlet pipes to be together. You can start in the room your heating run a pipe to the boiler; coil the rest in the room and end at the boiler. Slab on grade is a piece of cake! However I never see it! Why?
bigugh

Jed_2

Counterflow!

Provides a more balanced, even, average surface temp. Some say, also, a lower ^p, as there are only 90 deg. bends. Software analysis cannot account for this, compared to serpentine(how does it know the actual drop from bends, or is there any at all?) Also, recommended for higher ^T systems, such as SIM's and large commercial slabs. Takes longer to lay out. There are Pro's & Con's.IMHO

Jed

Art Pittaway_2

Round & round

It's all got to do with the water get's dizzy and increases the pressure drop. Dan wrote about it in "How to teach technicians"...Chapter 1, "We all have to start someplace, eh?" and Chapter 11, " Happy Endings". Great text, I highly recommend it. Might also have to do with the guy that keeps standing in the middle of the floor and saying, "Now where the **** do I put this?"

Dan Peel

Every Job needs one

Hardly an install goes in without at least one counterflow spiral. They're more fun to install and look very cool to the homeowner. Mostly practical for bathrooms and really tight spaced apps. With deltas in the 5 to 10 range there really is no balancing justification. enjoy....Dan

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Gary Fereday

\"COOL\" heat!

There is one! Wow I like that! bigugh

Mark Eatherton1

Loss of grey matter...

is much too much for me. I have enough trouble trying to make sure I don't exceed certain linear foot values, much less trying to figure out a route home from the grid.

I tried it once. I stripped 3oo foot off the reel, marked the 150 foot mark, started in the middle of the floor with the starting 180 degree loop and started working my way outward and homeward. I fell short about 5 feet of being able to hit the manifold, had to take everything up and start from scratch and haven't used it since.

As for floor performance, I've never had a complaint that serp doesn't provide adequate floor temps. Some tube makes demand that their snowmelt systems be done counter flow spiral, and I still refuse to do that, and I've never had a snowmelt system that anyone ever complained about.

To each his own. I'll stick with the serpent instead of the tubular tornado thank you...

ME

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Jed_2

Methodology

Mark, I designed, drafted the tube layout, and supervised the installation of a Self-Service, drive through, car wash SIM here in central Maine. Perimeter L-pattern, and all interior tubing was Counterflow. Draw it out, spray it out, lay it out. We had an average of 5' excess tubing per loop on a 3 zone(including Approach Apron)system on 4000', 6" slab. This done in Late November, with 15-25 mph winds at about 10 degF. We used 5/8 Kitec(thank goodness, PEX would have been over the top). 6 Section Buderus 315. Different strokes, I guess. Yes, it took longer. But, I believe with a 30^T, this was the best approach. Don't forget the PG.

Jed