Radiant Walls continued... (ME)

Mark Eatherton1

In my never ending persuit to make radiant available to ALL man kind, I present the following.

Prefabbed radiant wall/ceiling panels.

In the course of conversation with the project manager for the Habitat house, I asked him if he thought what we were doing with the radiant wall stuff was anything that HFH might persue on a regular basis. He said that while the concept was VERY interesting, and that he'd probably use it in his own home, he didn't think it would ever be anything that was completely "volunteer friendly". His biggest fear is people with screw guns, drywall and target tubing. He said that even under the best of circumstances, he has to go back and re-do a lot of the stuff that the volunteers do. "If it can go wrong, during the sheet rock phase, it does and will".

When I approached him with the possibilty of a pre fabricated wall panel that WE would securely screw into place, he smiled and raised his eye brows and said "Now THAT would work!"

SOOOOooo... I set to work, turnining and burning, drawing and sawing, screwing and doing, and VIOLA! I'm still not done...

Ran out of weekend before I ran out of projects to do...

Anyway, here's the fruits of my labor to date. What you're looking at is the loaded jig. The "jig" is used to set up the heat transmission plates, the tube, and lastly, the sheet rock. The HT plates will be "adhesed" to the sheet rock with a 3M spray on adhesive, and temporairly held down with a few sheet rock screws. I'll use green chalk lines for where to nail, and red chalk lines for where NOT to nail or screw. After initial tack screwing, you flip the panel over and roll the rest of the heat transmission plate to the sheet rock to insure complete and thorough bonding.

You then transport the radiant wall panel to the job site on the jig, now "mule". Once at the job site, holes are drilled to accomodate the supply/return leads, unscrew the panel from the mule, slip the leads into the hole, and secure the panel to the wall using standard sheet rock screws 8" on center. No hits, no leaks, no runs. No errors!

This particular panel is made for an 8 foot sheet of rock. It's active surface area is 24 square feet, @ approximatley 100 btu/sq. ft. per hour, that equals 2,400 buth. Enough for a well built 12 x 12 bed room. If it's a poorly insulated room, it may require 2 panels. I'd use Wirsbo Pro-Pex connections and Wirsbo manifolds. Each room can then be a zone unto itself, or a group of rooms can be a zone. Owners call.

These same panels could also serve as a radiant ceiling panels, and could also be built to 12 foot lengths, with 40 square feet of active panel surface area.

They could also serve as emergency solar hot water heating collectors for emergency hot water in remote areas, like the jungle...

They could also serve as season extenders for the old folks that want to sit on their back porch in the spring and fall, but find it just a tad chilly...

They could also serve as the radiant floor of a dog house.

Whaddya think Wallies, am I off my ROCKer??

Rock-n-radiant hydronicing!!

ME

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Riles

true visionary

Mark:

Interesting concept. I'm hesitant with Radiant Wall unless it is a shower behind tile. I'm always concerned that radiant wall above 24" starts to end up with possible punctures. I like to stay below the chair rail (30").

Is the tubing exposed to the 3M spray-on adhesive? If so, what do you think the impact will be? Is the adhesive temporary, until the panel gets installed? Are the green caulk lines in the center of the plates so they get secured to the joist? Center only for noise considerations (due to expansion and contraction?) What are your water temps to produce the 100 btu/sq.ft.? Are you using 1/2", I perfer 3/8" whenever possible, of course pressure drop (loop length) will vary.

Now, I very much like the idea of Radiant Ceiling as an option for retro bedrooms.

Yes, the Propex connections would be the way to go.

By the way, what are your thoughts on the new Wirsbo Heat Emission plates versus the existing Double Groove? (as seen in the picture). I know the new plates would not work for your proposed panels.

Radiant Wall or Ceiling already has the insulation, whereas retro in bedrooms fully carpeted or with hard wood floors is very costly and labor intensive to get insulation below floor.

I look forward to hearing more about this idea as you get some installed. Maybe Barba will put a little chapter in the CADM for you. THANKS.

Earthfire

give ideas

get a copyright and patent

Riles

good idea

yeah, if you are really on to something, lock up the rights.

Again, interesting idea.

Mark Eatherton1

Answers for Riles

Jeff, I intend to cover the tube with masking tape prior to spraying adhesive on the plates. The adhesive will stay as a permenant part of the configuration. I don't think that the adhesive will cause any problems for the tubing, but just to be sure I'll run it by the powers that be at Wirsbo.

The green stripes will be horizontal showing the safe zone for screwing and really has nothing to do with securing the plates. The tubes are 8" OC, and the screws can also be 8" OC, just 4" away from each tube.

Supply temps should not have to be more than 140 degrees F, and more likely nearer to 130 degrees F.

Yes, it is 1/2" ID tube. They (Wirsbo) don't make plates for 3/8" tube in this style.

Regarding the newq heat transmission plates, I've been using them for 4 or 5 years. They're the same one RTI has been selling forever. I like them.

I've been in communication with John Siegenthaler who has this in his office. He's been through 4 heating seasons and said he LOVES it. 15 minutes to actively sensible output, and steady state output acheived in less than thirty minutes. Higly conductive low to medium mass panels.

In any case, you'd have to notch the studs to receive the panels. That, or shim the panels out with 3/4" battens. I've got a router set up for doing the studs and it doesn't take long to router the grooves into the studs or trusses.

Anyway, thanks for asking and keep on learning.

ME


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Mark Eatherton1

Regarding patents

I guess I look at things differently than most. I figure that if someone else wants to reproduce what I develop, more power to them. The market is large enough that I really don't think I have to worry about crossing the path of another competitor. But that's just my opinion. I'd rather get it out on the market and start making money now than hold it back waiting for the patent approval process.

Also, with something this simple, it'd be real easy for someone else to produce something that is similar, but not the same, and get their own patent.

Thanks for the suggestions just the same. I'm guessing John Ruhnke probably has a different view than mine. He's been through the process a few times.

ME



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