2-pipe steam

antman

Anybody at all familiar with a 2-pipe steam system that DOES NOT have steam traps on the radiators? is this a vapor system? or should there be traps on all the radiators.It's a very big old Burnham boiler in a very big tudor home.

antman

2-pipe steam

Anybody at all familiar with a 2-pipe steam system that DOES NOT have steam traps on the radiators? is this a vapor system? or should there be traps on all the radiators.It's a very big old Burnham boiler in a very big tudor home.

Andy N.

sounds like...

a vapor system. yes there are several experts on the subject that frequent this site. what are your questions?

don_9

vapor system

It could be ,look for a vapor stat at the boiler or check
at the boiler for boiler return trap, I only have one vapor system under my belt so i will go no further, Check books and more for lost art of steam heating , worth more money
then dan is asking for ,sure has got me thru some rough times,and kept me from running outof the boiler room.

Unknown

I'll help, too

What brand name can you find on any of the original equipment? I believe you have a vapor system, as well.....Noel

Steamhead

That's definitely Vapor

and there were several different ways to do what a steam trap does now- allow air and condensate to pass from the radiator into the dry return, but not let steam get thru.

1- Water seals- just like a sink trap, these things contained some water so steam could not get thru. Sometimes these were contained in the radiator return-end bushing, other times in the return elbow. A small hole was drilled above the water level so air could vent through to the dry return, but it wouldn't let enough steam thru to cause trouble.

2- Weighted check valves- these were almost always mounted in the return elbow.

3- Orificed inlets- These depended on very low pressure, usually 8 ounces or so (always use a Vaporstat on these systems). The orifice, located either as part of the shutoff valve or as a separate disk or plate, allowed in only enough steam to enter the rad as that rad could condense.

We love this old stuff. Take some pics of it and post them- including any scary-looking hardware you may find in the boiler room- and let us know if you found any brand names. We'll do our best to help you identify that system.

Vapor systems were top-of-the-line in their day, and are still some of the quickest, quietest and most-efficient systems out there. Fixing them is easy once you know how they work. If you haven't done so already, get Dan's books "The Lost Art of Steam Heating" and "The Lost Art of Steam Heating Companion". Both cover Vapor systems quite well. Order them on the Books and More page of this site.

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Dale

It may not be a vapor

system, In Dan's LAOSH book pg 125 he shows such a system,everything goes to a wet return. I marked the page since I once made the statement that 2 pipe steam needed traps and one of our techs said there wasn't any on the one he was working on, makes one humble.

antman

The reason why I am asking, is because I need to install some recessed radiators. When I removed the old radiators no steam traps or return ells with those balls in it(anybody no proper term) just a regular return ell. No vapor stat on boiler just a pressuretrol I saw one angle steam trap in-line in the basement for a radiator ( not one that i am replacing) but thats about it, Unfortubnately I dont have that book of Dan's but I am interested in what page 125 may show.

Thanks to all

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Steamhead

Check

inside the return-end bushing, where the tailpiece for the return ell screws into it. If you can see thru to the inside of the radiator, then you probably have an orifice system. If not, the bushing probably contains a water seal.

If it's a water-seal system, you can use ordinary radiator traps on the new radiators. If it's an orifice system, you'll have to provide an orifice at the inlet.

Here's a cutaway of a radiator with a water-seal bushing in it. Ignore the fact that most of the rad is filled with water- that's irrelevant here. Look at the return connection at the lower left- you'll see how the bushing traps some water to keep steam from getting thru to the dry return. You'll also see the air hole.

Where is this system located?

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Steamhead

Dale and Big Ed, that's the 2-pipe, air-vent system

with a vent on each radiator, and a return line from each radiator that carries only condensate (no air) into a wet return. This system almost always has a radiator shutoff valve on the return as well as the supply. These systems were rather difficult to control, which led to the development of Vapor systems.

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Big Ed

On page 125 there is a two pipe steam system in which each radiator's return drops down to the cellar's wet return. The water in the return would act like a water seal and prevent steam from entering the return side of the radiator, from another rad . On this two pipe system each rad needs it's own air vent .......

antman

Thanks

> with a vent on each radiator, and a return line

> from each radiator that carries only condensate

> (no air) into a wet return. This system almost

> always has a radiator shutoff valve on the return

> as well as the supply. These systems were rather

> difficult to control, which led to the

> development of Vapor systems.

>

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> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 157&Step=30"_To Learn More About This Contractor,

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Thanks again guys, as soon as I look into this I'll let ya know what system it was.

Ant

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antman

Thanks

Thanks again guys, will look into this asap.

Ant

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