1974 Radiant Slab - Patrick O'Neill

PJO

Hey Wallies!
My first post on the new Wall...the greatest group on the internet hopefully will kick this one around.
I looked at a house last night that I'm trying to talk the wife (management) into...without going into too much detail, it's on 5.5 acres of gourgous private ground less than a mile from our current home. It's a 1974 rancher, 3200 sq. ft. and has a slab on grade with radiant.

Among the items looked at was the "boiler room". As I opened the door, I immediately thought of Ron Jr. and all of his Levittown replacements...oil-fed Weil-McClain boiler replaced last year in a glorified closet, without the height differential, feeding a 1-1/4" header to 1/2" drops of copper into the slab. Two zones with a single Taco circ. and two zone valves. One line runs right into the slab in the room, and the other runs behind a wall for the rest of the slab. No temp. mixing, but the boiler also has a tankless coil - settings where 150/170F feeding the slab! Is it me or is that scary? I would have loved to see the old boiler for signs of condensation, etc. I only had about 30 seconds in there, but plan on a serious visit next time.

Here's another worry...two of the bedrooms have electric baseboard. I questioned the homeowner (been there since '84 and selling it himself), and he said it was that way when he bought the house. I'm not good at this but I swore he then had the look some of those Enron and WorldCom execs have under questioning...you know what I mean. This has "leak" written all over it, right? Next thought is where will it leak next? Next thought is the run behind all that length of wall. Yikes!

As I looked around the house, I noticed that the floors could all have quick track installed...3/4" or so clearance on the thresholds everywhere. Here's my next question...I doubt the slab is insulated, so what about quick track and no insulation? Not enough height for anything on top of the slab, and unless I rip up the entire floor of the place and pour a thin slab, I can't do much else can I?

I also could put radiant in the garage...about 1-1/2" of clearance on the top of floor here - insulation?. I also would add all of the stuff I've learned on The Wall and at Harrisburg's seminar...constant circ, a buffer tank/Ergomax for better HW and boiler protection, controls, etc. A/C shouldn't be a problem to add due to the huge attic...I'll put returns in all the rooms (except baths) of course.

I really love this place - you don't see land like this around here, and this place will go fast in this crazy real estate market. I must convince management that the house isn't that bad, and can make a good case for the heat and air due to doing it at our current house (a mix of radiant slab in the garage, staple-up with plated on the first floor, and baseboard/toekicks upstairs, with two zones of A/C)....HELP!

Floyd

Your probably right!!!

The chances of this thing leaking sound pretty good!!! But.... where there is a will there is a way!!!
Quick trak sounds like a great option and the heat bills would have to be better than they were before, so check what they were for the previous owner and see if you can live with that. Also check out the insultarp, you may be able to get that under the Quik trak. And as has been discussed here lately, the slap will eventually heatup to the floor temp so design it with the lowest possible temps. in mind. Get a indirect there somewhere and put a Space Pak or Unico in the attic, and you are set, ready to go!!!
5.5 acres would really be "isolated" in your neck of the woods, can't blame you for wantin something like that!!!

Good Luck!!! and have fun!!!

Floyd

PJO

Thanks Floyd...

great to hear from you. Yeah, I'll try to fit an indirect or Ergomax somewhere (hang it maybe?). Is Insultarp that thin? That would be great! The HO said he fills the 330 gallon tank three times a year...sounds like maybe four is a better guess. I could live with 1,200 gallons a year.

How about that slab seeing 150 to 170F water for all those years? Any worries?

Floyd, on another subject...that Williamsport house I told you about is nearing completion...I believe they ended up heating with electric baseboard :-(

hr

Abandon hope

of salvaging that old copper. Consider radiant and maybe some panel radiators or radiant walls, ceilings, etc. It will be tough to get much R value and a new radiant in 3/4".
Sounds like a fun project where is it located?

Right now you would be very, very wise to put money in real estate as opposed to the stock market.

hot rod

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Online Sheriff \"Murph\"

remember now

that the insulation (I will probaly get beaten to soreness on this)doesn't keep the heat in ,it slows down the transfer. so as far as the insultarp will create a moister barrier and the warm-board will definatley have better response time and transfer.

tell the "boss" I said it was "ok" to go for it.and don't listen to floyd, that man is nuttin but trouble!!

PJO

Location...

Hot Rod, it's in Southeast Pa., and I wish it was near you...I could picture you having a field day in this place - including "radiant dogs" :-)

Yes, it does sound like an adventure...I'm hoping I will partake.

Real estate is definitely the better choice...have a bit of past expeience there. I actually got into the stock market a bit late :-( but that's hindsight.

I can picture my ten year old son and I tearing around the pasture area on quads...that will be my next toy if I get this place.

Take Care, PJO

PJO

PJO

AAAGGGGHHHH!!!!

Who's that scary looking guy? On the right, Murph! I forgot about that shot! That was when we where talking about the Williamsport house I just mentioned...does that mean you and I are on the same wavelength? As Scooby Doo says..."Ruh Roh! PJO

Mark Hunt

The old Indian hot foot!!!

In my area there is a developement that has Levitt style homes complete with radiant slabs and oil fired water heaters in closets that are so small, HOW SMALL ARE THEY?!?!? They are so small, you have to go outside to change your mind!!!!

The other heating contractors in the area do not understand rad systems and set the boilers to run at 180 cuz' that's what boilers run at.

I haven't seen any problems with the slabs, but the copper tubing usually doesn't last after the change out.

The electric baseboard is a good sign that there is a problem.

I would suggest a full audit of the home including a blower door test to determine where your big heat loss and gain is.

Obviously a pressure test of the floor system needs to be performed and if you do decide to use Quick-Track, you may also consider "reflectix" bubble insulation for underneath.

Good Luck!!!

Mark H

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Floyd

Can't believe it...

Electric around here is defintely NOT the way to go!! Hope they are planning on cranking the woodstove up!!!! And that ain't cheap if you have to buy it.
Anyway, your 40 x 80 ranch house shouldn't take no 1200 gal of oil to heat!!!!
When you get there again, just casually feel the water feed line and see if it's cool, that will tell you if there is water feeding in constantly. Also check if the valves to the radiant zones are shut off, this may tell you something also.
If that sysrem was really leaking bad, you may have a boiler that is old beyond it's years, already.
Wouldn't worry about the slab, if you get the heat out of it now, it won't breakup anymore.
Get some decent radiant in there and I bet you heat that on 600 gal a year, with, hot water to boot!!!
Oh, and also take a look up top in the attic.... bet there's only about 6-12" of insulation up there.... add another R-19 and you won't be sorry!!!

Good Luck!!!

Floyd