I must aplogize to the following - David Broome

steve gates

highland or corona somplace like these where the soil reacts with cooper under the slab?

Unknown

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DanHolohan

Not easy

to do that. You're a big man, David. Thanks.

Sal Santamaura1

Apology accepted David.

I agree with you completely - - all the experts here should go back to discussing heating systems. Since I have little to contibute on that subject (and much to learn), don't expect to see me posting very often. But's it's not because I'm staying away. 'Been reading The Wall daily for four years, and expect to continue doing so.

DanHolohan

Heating

Sal, please tell us about what you'd like to have in that home that you're having built in the future. Has your reading of the Wall over the years influenced you? How so?

Thanks.

Sal Santamaura1

I'd be happy to Dan.

Thanks for asking. First, a little background. We live in southern California, but are planning retirement in Colorado. We bought land there (Estes Park) around seventeen years ago. We still have about five years to go.

Having grown up in the NYC area, I'm familiar with hydronic heat, both bb and cast iron. Radiant in floor has always been attractive for the Colorado home, and, as a complusive researcher and planner, discovering The Wall was "a good thing." Lest readers get the wrong idea, please know that there's enough gray matter in my skull to prelude any thought of a DIY project. I made preliminary contact with Mark E. last summer, expecting to meet with him for discussion of some stock house plans I had purchased. Arrival at our lot revealed a huge trophy home under construction across the street, shaped and positioned differently than what our "neighbor" told us would be its configuration, and blocking what we always expected to be our view corridor. The stock plans were rendered effectively useless. I cancelled out the meeting with Mark, and we seriously considered selling the lot. After spending most of our vacation fretting, we decided to try again; an architect has been hired to design something appropriate for a different location on the land. When we have a set of working drawings, I expect to hire Mark to do the heating system design and, if our location is within his working radius, installation. In that case, our choice of a GC will be based on, among other things, his willingness to work with Mark.

After reading The Wall for so long I have definitely settled on this configuration: Warmboard throughout. I'm smitten with the larger tube diameter and fast response time. Bathrooms, kitchen, laundry and entry will be ceramic tile, probably installed over WonderBoard or similar. Everywhere else will be a floating installation of one of the thinner laminated hardwood products. I like the fact that simply prying off some base shoe would enable lifting the floor should any leaks make it necessary. Refinishing of the 3/8" wood isn't an issue since we generally go barefoot in the house anyway, and sanding won't be necessary. Living as we have in an area of slab homes, and knowing lots of people who've had jackhammers in their houses when plumbing (buried in the slabs) leaked, has always turned me off to radiant in gyp. If tubes-in-a-pour were the only option, I'd probably take a hit on comfort and go with panel radiators like Runtal.

Control system will definitely be constant circulation with outdoor reset. Specifics of the design, as well as boiler selection, will be whatever Mr. Eatherton recommends. I will rely on the expert. One question Wallies might like to discuss in this area concerns long unoccupied periods. We may build the house a couple of years before moving in full time. That means dropping the setpoint to around 55 or 60. Would putting a "home/away" switch in the control system (that selects constant- or demand-circulation) be wise? I figured less electrical consumption and circulator wear might result, and no occupants would complain about expansion/contraction noises. Or do you think tube rubbing/wear would cancel the advantages?

Thanks to everyone for reading and sharing your expertise over the years.

Sal Santamaura1

Guess I got self-absorbed...

and didn't fully answer your question Dan. My reading of The Wall over the years has definitely influenced me. First, even before Find a Contractor, I figured out that Mark E. was the man to go to in Colorado. Second, all the detailed discussion about pros and cons of every radiant alternative led me to the decisions described above.

DanHolohan

Who says

you don't know heating? Thanks for sharing all of this with us, Sal. I'd love to be there when the GC hears that Mark is the guy that's making the comfort-related desisions. That's delicious!

John R. Hall

Nice place

Sal:

I'm not a tech but a frequent contributor and I'd like to say that I am jealous of you. I've been to Estes Park and truly believe it is "Garden of the God's Country." I can think of only a couple of places I'd rather relocate to. Have fun!

Boilerpro

Constant/ intermittent circulation

I suggest constant circulation for all homes that spend long periods of time unoccuppied. The main reason is that if the water is always moving, any cold spots in the system will be provided with heat. A few otheer suggestions, two boilers, one can be a high efficiency model to do most of the heating and the second and inexpensive standard model to pick up the extra heat needed during those really cold days and to provide back up. I also twin my circulators for the system, using two smaller models instead of one big one and install check valves on the outlets. If one pump goes down the other will still provide enough flow to keep you out of trouble. If using zone valves for control, which works well with dual pumps, use models that fail open, so if a zone valve fails, heat will still be provided to the zone. Hope these ideas help!

Boilerpro

Sal Santamaura1

Actually Steve I've worked with...

folks who live all over the LA area, from Ventura to San Diego, who have had this problem. Copper water lines here are typically embedded in the slabs, not under them. I suspect concrete constituents cause most corrosion, not the soil. There are also leaks from physical stress; lots of super-expansive soil beats up slabs. Finally, hardness and other contaminants in the tap water create problems too.