Who likes the TigerLoop Fuel deaerator

EdTheHeaterMan

Vote at bottom of this post:

In another discussion, On Oct 12 @MaxMercy said "I've been following and not commenting since I don't know what's going on, but I do have a question and then a comment. OP mentioned several times that there's no sign of air/bubbles/foam in the TL. I have NEVER seen a TL ever, so I confess that I don't know how they work, but my question is that -"

Here is how the tiger loop works.

Lets start new with no oil in the TL

Float E is at the lowest point and that leaves Port F open from the Central chamber to the upper chamber so air can vent. The valve seat covering Port D is closed so the path from the tank to the fuel pump is sealed and the ball check A is closed.

When the pump operates a vacuum happens on the inlet of the pump. That vacuum thru port B opens the ball check A and oil from the tank is drawn into the pump thru the bottom chamber of the TL

Air in the fuel line system is then driven out the pump's return line to port C of the tiger loop. The air vents thru port F of the TL from the Center chamber to the upper chamber where is is vented to the atmosphere.

Once oil is returned to the TL from the fuel pump it enters the center chamber and the float E raises to cut off port F with valve seat G.

With port F closed the oil begins to build up pressure in the center chamber of the TL. when the pressure reaches about 1.5 PSI that forces valve seat D to open and allow fuel from the center chamber into the lower chamber so it can pass to the pump thru port B. That oil can return to the pump inlet.

Check valve A drops to close off fuel from the tank until it is needed when pressure in the center chamber drops which closes valve seat D sealing off the center chamber from the lower chamber.

• If air enters the Tigerloop, the float drops, allowing the air to escape into the upper chamber.
• As the burner continues to operate, the oil pressure in the center chamber gradually drops as fuel is consumed. When the pressure drops, valve D closes, and ball check A opens, allowing more fuel to enter from the tank.
• As the center chamber refills and the oil pressure builds, valve D opens, allowing fuel to flow to the pump. At the same time, ball check A closes, stopping the flow of fuel from the tank.
• This cycle repeats continuously, with ball check A and valve D opening and closing in response to changes in oil pressure in the center chamber.

Hope that explains the TigerLoop operation clear as mud.

Ed

ScottSecor

I have used TigerLoop to solve a problem

We installed the earlier versions (with metal can if memory serves) on problem jobs back in the late 1980's or early 1990's. For some reason they would occasionally spit oil droplets. I do not remember the cause or the remedy. I do remember a few customers calling and complaining of an oil smell. While I am not certain, I believe the "newer" version eliminated the spitting problem. I am not familiar with the current product line as we rarely work on oil burners these days. Most equipment in my area burns natural gas.

Grallert

I've used them a couple of times to solve or I should say deal with an issue. I installed them on all of my installations because it seemed Riello burners were happier with them.

Dave Carpentier

I used one because it came with my Roth tank.

Sure became nice to not have to bleed the burner. On the other hand, it did seem to struggle bleeding when there wasn't much fuel in the tank. (A Roth tank draws from the top)

HVACNUT

Tiger Loop is not a band-aid for a suction leak. They were commonly used back in the day dealing with a suction leak with 2 pipe and buried tanks, inaccessible compression fittings, foot valves, etc. Today there's no excuse.

That being said, there are times when a Tiger Loop would be beneficial, even with good tight oil lines. My own oil tank is an outside above ground 275 Roth. One pipe 1/2" O.D. with a total run of about 75 ft. to the TL Ultra in the basement. The oil lines are as tight as a fishes butt hole. I get less vacuum draw. Its actually 0 with a clean spin on. The oil gets heated as it circulates through the Tiger Loop at 4 GPH for better combustion. You're not heating the oil with 2 pipe on a outside tank. My oil line is coated and sleeved through 3/4" seal tight flexible electrical conduit because it goes underground and through a crawlspace. Single pipe makes me feel a little safer for some reason. I don't know which choice in the poll covers all that.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I have used TigerLoop to solve a problem

Indoor tank gravity feed………never

underground buried tank two pipe…….never

Roth tank or a 275 indoors with top feed ……two pipe no TL never

Outside tank above ground….TL to let the oil warm up

Steve214

We use them often with no real issues. Our policy is to abandon the return line on two pipe underground tanks and install a tiger loop ultra to eliminate the possibility of a leak on the return. They are also used on pretty much all top feed jobs.

One thing no one can answer me is why did many overhead one pipe systems run fine for many years and then all of a sudden they become trouble getting airbound. Throw on a TL and the problem goes away. I believe it has something to do with today’s oil….what do you guys think??

EBEBRATT-Ed

I have used TigerLoop to solve a problem

@Steve214 I always found a 1 pipe overhead system problematic

ChrisJ

I know very little about this but I'm wondering is air a big problem with oil? I thought once you purge the line that's it?

SuperTech

I have used TigerLoop to solve a problem

I like Tiger Loops. I just installed one yesterday. I wish every job was single pipe gravity feed to the burner but unfortunately thats not the case. I don't hate two pipe setups but they do tend to make oil filters and pump strainers become dirty faster due to the higher flow rate. Sometimes a two pipe system with a lot of lift and a long run will have problems with high vacuum and cavitation, usually capping the return line and converting to a single pipe with a Tiger Loop solves that problem.

EdTheHeaterMan

I use TL to solve problems and on new installs

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1906743#Comment_1906743

You are exactly right. Unless you get more air in the fuel line between the tank and the fuel pump over the next few hours, days, months, year. If there is a pin hole leak in a piece of tubing, or a burr on a flare fitting, or a compression ferrule that gets crushed that allows even the smallest amount of air to get in, over time that air will need to be purged out when the burner goes off by the safety as a result of a flame failure because that air found its way to the fuel pump.

EdTheHeaterMan

I use TL to solve problems and on new installs

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1906719#Comment_1906719

"One thing no one can answer me is why did many overhead one pipe systems run fine for many years and then all of a sudden they become trouble getting airbound." 

I believe the copper is junk. I never had a problem making a perfect, leak-free flare with the cheapest flaring tools until the turn of the century. The Y2K computer virus must have made all the good copper disappear, and now all we get is this stuff that can't be properly reamed without leaving a residual burr that causes the flare at the end of the copper to leak.

I even purchased a more expensive flaring tool to compensate for this junky copper, and still, about 5% of my flares needed to be re-flared.

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1906754#Comment_1906754

Wait ..

Are you suggesting screws fall out all the time. The world's an imperfect place?

I need to sit down.....

EBEBRATT-Ed

I have used TigerLoop to solve a problem

Sometimes soft copper gets work hardened and when you flare it it splits. Heating it with a torch fixes this.

I never had one of the new fancy flaring tools until mini splits with flares became common. We used to braze all minis in the old days.

I still have my old Imperial flaring tool the same one I used for 46 years of burner work. Most of the time I got good flares. Maybe 2 out of 10 you would have to re flare. I found a drop of oil on the flaring tool worked but what worked best was to tighten the tool back it off tighten back it off until you got the full flare

EdTheHeaterMan

I use TL to solve problems and on new installs

I remember that the Craftsman 1/4" x 4" shaft was the best 3/8" copper tube reamer for flaring copper. Once that 4 in 1 screwdriver came out and you no longer needed 6 different screwdrivers in your tool pouch, I lost my favorite reaming tool.

ChrisJ

I'm not sure @EdTheHeaterMan got the breakfast Club reference

EdTheHeaterMan

I use TL to solve problems and on new installs

Right, I did not get the John Bender reference at first. But I can put the screws back in the door with my reaming screw driver. Principal Vernon should be pleased. https://clip.cafe/the-breakfast-club-1985/who-closed-that-door/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

clammy

I like to put a Tiger Loop on every new oil heat installation

i started using tiger loops on problem 2 pipe systems and one single to reduce vacuum. When i research years ago after a trip to germany i found them on all oil burners . There main reason among a few where there concerns of higher vacuum causing flame instability due to burner pumps goin into a slight vacuum and most used higher pump pressure as we see common now a days . The other being the environment issue w 2 pipe systems and the fear of return line leakage plus increase in oil return temps to the tank and fear of condensation forming in outside tanks among other issues . I always preferred to us a tiger loop on older in ground /outside tanks due to reason but the mainly being why filter what you are not burning especially when dealing w very very old inground tanks and it usually reduces a call back every time the tank gets filled .i have found that there unit w a vacuum gauge stinks on more then a few the super fine and small gauge assembly w that crappy shot off w a screw drive tends to leak or suck air when running usually causing a lock out . The other reason is that for a time most of the buderus oil stuff had one included and im usually one who follows what they say in germany .First off cause there german and also because there oil fuel prices when i was there where enough to make your sphincter pucker and germans and most europeans are quite frugal in comparisons to the wasteful americans . Plus keep in mind they all get a good yearly rogering weather ya like it or not ,not like here where people like the break and react method of preventive maintenance and then the omg cost reaction lol . That was me ,now i pass on oil it's one less thing to deal with being if the oil co aint gonna clean it correctly when on a service contract i highly doubt ya gonna pay me to do it cause it wont be cheap . But hey any one can do what ever they want and in some cases suffer the results out of there pockets or just don't pick up the phone and some one else sooner or later will straighten it out .

peace and good luck clam

clammy

I like to put a Tiger Loop on every new oil heat installation

I think a lot of the older over heads worked because most cad cell relays had a 45 second time out now most are down 15 sec and the higher pump pressure dont help any pump from slight cavitation . Never saw issues w older 1750 rpm burner pumps .

just a thought peace and good luck clam

EBEBRATT-Ed

I have used TigerLoop to solve a problem

I am sick of hearing about "return line leaks" IDK if this is something someone dreamed up to scare people off of oil but to me it is absolutely ridiculous

EdTheHeaterMan

I use TL to solve problems and on new installs

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1906902#Comment_1906902

It happened to me. two times.

one time was what you might think. someone was diging in the garden trying to make the oil fill pipe look nice by planting stuff around the fill pipe. A shovel hit the return and not the supply. the customer ran out of oil soon after the gardening project was completed. And all the grass and flowers died too.

the other one was a firomatid valve was put on both the supply and the return (big NO NO putting a valve on a return) and the return line valve failed to open. when the burner motor came on, the pump seal was the weakest link and there was oil all over the place around the oil burner. Technically not an oil leak on a return but the fact that there was a return made it happen. If there was no return line there would have been no valve on it.

I was present for the second one as it was my fault the return valve was closed in the first place to prevent a syphon leak from the tank thru the return line when I opened up the pumps strainer cover.

Good thing that you don't experience return line leaks in your experience @EBEBRATT-Ed. They can be problematic.