LLH
Fascinating.
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
Comments
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just thinking about trying to reach something in there makes me feel twitchy
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Closely spaced tees would have been better and less $$.
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Interesting piping considering it appears to be a single temp system, but isn't that LLH a factory Viessmann product? I have seen several of them paired with a Viessmann but never paired with something else.
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Viessmann makes that LLH yes. you would typically see it in the vertical position, it would be better at air elimination in that position. I have sold a couple for other brand boilers but typically you wouldn't see them paired with other brands considering the supplier would need to be ordering full freight orders from viessmann to have a good price on these. add that with the last 10 years or so every hydronic accessories brand has their own LLH and it just very rarely would happen. I have switched 99% of my viessmann customers to caleffi. When you get into really large LLH the viessmann begins to look pretty attractive again, the price is just unbeatable especially in large sizes and where you need insulation, they have a very nice form fitted insulation set for their LLH. And I know this is such a tiny issue but I think the large sizes just look better in the boiler room as well (think 5+ foot tall and large flanged connections).
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I would guess that the LLH was sold to the installer as a package deal put together by the local Viessmann dealer or rep. Unfortunately, the installer didn't read the instructions.
This is a job about 100 miles north of me and the plumber got my name off the Viessmann website. The homeowner was getting scalding water from the indirect and the plumber was convinced the "black box" was a heat exchanger and had something to do with the problem.
This job intrigued me as I've often wondered what it's like working as a tech. support person for a boiler company dealing with plumbers or handymen or people who think they know something about the equipment in front of them.
I explained that the black box was called a LLH and that it decouples boiler and system flows and that there was no heat exchanger inside; basically an open vessel. I used more words with him, but could kind of tell that he didn't understand. I sympathized since it's not an easy concept to absorb.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
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It is surprising how many, even hydronic "specialists", do not understand hydraulic separation, in general. Much less the workings of hydraulic separators.
The job does look to be well installed?
Did you run down the scalding cause? Are mixing valves required by code in California? I think 4 or 5 states require mix valves on any and all DHW devices.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
nevermind may have been responding to the wrong thing
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They installed the mixing valve on the wrong side of the boiler .
There was an error rendering this rich post.
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“Did you run down the scalding cause? Are mixing valves required by code in California? I think 4 or 5 states require mix valves on any and all DHW devices.”
The boiler and indirect are installed in a 300[] trailer home; built in NY and brought out here.
I’m going there in the morning to try and figure it out. Mixing valves are not code here.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
Seems like there is room in the middle below the boiler for the LLH to be vertical with a bit of re-plumbing. If anyone can figure out a solution…you can Alan. To the HO: "May the Forbes be with you".
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i'd imagine that cost of how much has to be reworked is also a factor here.
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The homeowner lives in the very small town of Penngrove which I’ve never been to. It’s an exit off the freeway that I’ve passed by hundreds of times on my way to the many destinations further north. And once off the freeway, it’s another few miles on the Old Redwood Highway to find the town which seems as though it hasn’t been touched in a hundred years, surrounded by farms. If I were a woman, I’d call it cute.
Driving further east now, passing by green vineyards of wine grapes, the road getting smaller and smaller, barely wide enough for my truck and with my GPS starting to fail, I arrive.
It took me 4 hours to get a partial grip on the system. The system pump was frozen, relief valve leaking, x-tank flat, boiler trap full of sediment, HX coffee grounds.
The main problem she was having was that her DHW was too hot. I switched out the aquastat, but the problem persisted even with the aquastat set at 100F. It’s a 29 gallon indirect and there must be some serious stratification going on.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
Sounds like a nice trip all your missing is a good coffee shop.
Unfortunately, it sounds like you will be making a few trips
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FWIW… I have had a bunch of issue w/ those Honeywell aqua stats. Many of them not shutting off.
1 happened out of the box. 3 of them on Brad White indirect WH.
The only reason I didnt have a scalding issue is that I did have a mix valve on the tank.
Also looks like Non barrier tubing.
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