Introduction and a question or two

AllenB

Hi all, I’ve been reading for a while (both here and a couple of Dan’s books) but haven’t posted before. For the past five years or so, I’ve owned several “vintage” multi-family buildings, all with one-pipe steam heat. I’m quite mechanically inclined but until recently, managed to ignore the heating systems. They worked, appropriate professional care was given to the boilers each year, and that was largely that.

This year, one of the buildings had a few issues, I discovered that the plumber involved was both very expensive and not particularly good, and started looking into things. It turns out that steam is fascinating and I’ve kind of fallen for it.

So far, I’ve fixed a few leaks, improved venting, replumbed a riser feed that had been “repaired” with a backwards slope, discovered a few clogged bits, and generally surveyed the systems to understand each layout. And found a lot more that needs attention over time.

Now for anyone who’s read this far, on to a question or two. One of the buildings has several condensate pumps. This particular one receives condensate from two branches of a steam main that loop back around and wind up at the same spot. I haven’t got a decent photo, but it’s very similar to this condensate pump setup (with three lines) in the same building:

Notice how each line has its own air vent and its own steam trap, after which the condensate lines join together and feed into the pump’s receiver.

First, are three steam traps necessary? Or could all three branches be joined together first, with a single pipe down to a single trap? Presumably the steam pressure is almost identical in the lines that come together here.

The steam traps are already in place thanks to some prior owner but each one is “line-sized” as Dan puts it, and together they must be woefully underutilized.

Second, are the vents necessary at all? I upgraded the old ones earlier on, but the steam traps should pass air into the receiver, which is vented to atmosphere.

Third, in the other condensate pump location (with two lines feeding in) that I mentioned above, the pump itself seems unnecessary. Originally, those dropped down into wet returns that passed through a couple of walls to the boiler room, a mind-boggling 8-10 feet away. As far as I can tell, when the original horizontal pipes failed, they were replaced by the pump, which is piped back to the boiler via a winding 50-60 foot route instead.

One of the steam traps (Hoffman FT015H-5) at this location has failed. In fact, it was entirely filled with rusty flakes, a good pint’s worth, including the pipe leading to it. Inside, the float was entirely gone. It was blocking steam, alright, and the condensate, too.

Rather than replace the innards of this trap, would it work to tie both lines into the other, working trap? Or, if I revert to the old gravity return (my preference) given the short distance, can both dry returns be tied together, share a single vent up high, and a single vertical pipe which drops down and then runs the short distance horizontally, back to the boiler? There is plenty of “A” dimension.

Apologies for the length of this. I’m never quite sure what to include and what can be left out. Regardless, any insight regarding the possibilities of combining multiple dry returns would be appreciated!

Steamhead

I'd be looking at whether the condensate pump is really needed. If not, then you could get rid of more than a couple traps. But to answer your question, no, each drop needs its own trap.

Get in touch with @The Steam Whisperer , who services Chicagoland. He's as good as it gets.

109A_5

To me the setup pictured is a bit goofy. With the Big Mouth vents up high what benefit are the F & T traps, a loop seal would work. I'm assuming the F & T traps are up high enough above the tank's water so the venting of the mains would be accomplished through the F & T traps and the tank's vent.

I guess more venting is better, however Big Mouths are pretty fast.

You want the steam in each main isolated from each other by some sort of water seal.

If gravity return will work you may be better off.