Failing parts???
I was in my local hardware store today. Hardware stores are not what they used to be the old timey stores had everything. Most have been put out of business by the box stores. But in my area we have "Rocky's Hardware" that is an ACE hardware chain and all in all they are pretty good. Actually, they are a bigger chain than I thought and have about 50 stores. But I would guess I have better luck buying stuff their than at a big box. I also find the Ace hardware tools hold up well but that's another story.
I was in their today wandering through the electrical isle and I noticed they are stocking capacitors for AC condensers and even a couple of contactors.
I was pretty surprised to see that as I have never seen contactors and capacitors in any hardware store before. If they stock them, they must sell some so you know the China parts are failing. Caps used to last at least 20 years now it's the most common service call there is. I guess when they took the good PCbs out they started failing LOL
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the good hardware store by me has stocked that stuff for decades. lots of well parts and stuff too, probably a lot of plumbing stuff many supply houses don't have. the not quite as good hardware store had varying amounts of that stuff before they had to move because their building was sold to build a tower of expensive condos. even the 2 ace stores have some of that stuff. the first 2 have belts although the somewhat less good one had them crammed in to weird corners where you had to ask for help finding them.
i think to some extent the hardware stores around me sell a lot to the maintenance people for property management companies so they have more pf a market for more professional things.
doesn't ace sell craftsman branded tools now, which is now owned by stanley.
seems like plenty of caps went bad from the 70's after a decade or so when they likely still used pcb containing oil. it was when they started making caps outside of the americas because price was the only decoding factor that the quality fell to the point that they failed after a year or 2.
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After all these years I still do not like walking into one of the big box hardware stores. There is little to no help, poorly stocked or not stocked, or hard to find items etc. I guess I feel this way because those younger than me do not know how nice a small local hardware store was how troublesome it is.
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Our local Rocky's Ace has an excellent selection of fasteners, bigger than any big box store, so I go there whenever I need to replace a bolt on my car, snowblower, etc.
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Yeah, I find Rockys pretty good. I knew they had expanded but never realized they have about 50 stores now.
I suspect (this is just my guess) they tend to stay away from BB locations and do pretty well. If you drive by one they are usually busy and their prices compared to BB is ok.
If I recall Rocky's started in Springfield in the 20s with one store. They are now in NJ, ME, OH, FLA, CT maybe some other states.
I was on a job where I needed a pipe threader to do a job at the University of MA in Amherst. The shop sent me a busted up machine. The foot switch had a missing spring some #12 screws missing and some snapped off. (typical of a union contractor) they don't check the equipment going out or coming back.
There was a Rocky's 2 miles away. #12 screws are not that common. But I went there and got screws, a #12 drill and tap and a small bag of assorted springs and was back in business in no time.
Used to go their quite a few times when at U Mass working, but you know what happened?
Lowes opened up across the street and HD was a mile away so after I bought the tap and screws the next time I was up thre Rocky's was gone.
Good hardware store still survive when they are in remote locations away from big box wher its not worth the drive to the BB
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I had a rotor that was assembled with #12 self locking screws. I had to use locktite on the new screws, couldn't find self locking. i think i used stainless allen head to make them easier to get out in another 30 years , the originals were phillips or maybe even straight blade.
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@EBEBRATT-Ed My two main "suppliers" are the Norwood Home Depot on Route 1 and the Walpole Rocky's Ace in the town next door. The Rocky's is probably just far enough from the HD that they can survive.
A few years ago, a new True Value opened right downtown here within a few blocks from me, and I tried to give them as much business as I could. But they folded within a few years. Proximity to HD was probably a major factor.
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opening a new store is a little of a catch 22, you have to have all the weird stuff that people need to keep people coming back but it takes a lot of effort and money to have that stuff but you won't make money if you don't have that stuff…
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The new True Value had everything you'd expect to find in a True Value store, pretty much everything I needed for daily maintenance. I'd go there first, then the Depot if they didn't have what I needed. But after a few years they started reorganizing, then reducing stock, and from that point on it was kind of a death spiral.
I couldn't understand, as it was right on a high traffic main street. One of the desk guys said their lack of parking killed them, but I dunno. Plenty of restaurants nearby do fine. I think it was the Home Depot 10 minutes away that killed them. Same thing happened to the True Value in my home town. A Home Depot opened 10 minutes away, and they bled to death.
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is that a metered parking situation where you have to pay to park during the day but can park for free at night to go to the restaurants. also not so sure the restaurants are actually making money vs new people with a plan and some money keep moving in.
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ACE and TrueValue are the local MOM and POP hardware store's best defense to the Big Box invasion. There was an old-time hardware store in a small town in NJ that was "THE PLACE" to get just about everything…. When the owner died, the kids that worked for mom and dad took over and kept it in the family. They are now part of the True Value franchise system and that keeps them going.
Which reminds me of Paul Harvey. A radio announcer that had a daily news show that used to broadcast a few times a day on radio stations across the country. He would tell a story about someone or something of interest and then tell you the daily news. At the end of the broadcast Paul would tell you “The rest of the story” which usually had a different twist or funny ending that you didn’t expect.
Another thing about Paul’s radio show was that True Value Hardware stores was one of the sponsors of his show. Paul started his show one day talking about a youngish woman named Mary, who was shopping in the local True Value store, and so you might think that it was just another radio commercial. But he made mention of a particular item hanging near the checkout counter that helps you find where you might have a stud behind a wall so you can hang a heavy picture or mirror by screwing or nailing into the stud. The young lady customer saw the product and asked the checkout person if that really works. And the counter person enthusiastically said “absolutely!”
At the end of the broadcast Paul said “…remember Mary, who purchased the stud finder one Friday afternoon at the True Value hardware store? When she returned on Monday to get some other items, the same counter clerk asked if the stud finder worked? Mary enthusiastically replied YES! I took it to the night club on Friday night and held it up to all the gentlemen in the place and I found lots of studs. And now you know… the rest of the story!”
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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until 2018 true value was a co-op of its member businesses to provide wholesale distribution for those stores.
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@EdTheHeaterMan I believe I might have heard that story decades ago. He usually came on in my area, on the AM radio which was all I had in my work truck back then. I have also repeated it.
Paul Harvey…Good day!
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But seriously.
Failing parts as @EBEBRATT-Ed post begins. I have never seen, so often, things failing first thing right out of the box.
Recently a brass or copper nipple supplied with a new water heater had a pin hole leak. BRAND NEW RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX!
It seems so common place but I refuse to proclaim that it is business as usual.
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Rocky’s used to be in the same plaza as the BigY supermarket where there’s now a PlanetFitness in Norwood.
The liquor store that’s a time capsule on Washington Street next to Dominos in South Norwood at Dean Street used to have half the space as the original hardware store in town.
Norwood has numerous free municipal parking lots downtown. Parking isn’t so much the issue as a lack of customers and decrepit buildings with high rent. The loss of the local hospital due to politicians fighting over a cake that isn’t baked (why they won’t give up any leverage in labor negotiations by waiving the expensive Certificate of Need bureaucracy) is a serious blow to foot traffic and economic activity downtown.
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Must be a very tough business. The BB buys so much material that they get it dirt cheap. I think for hardware stores to survive they have to be far enough from the BB to make driving their less desirable. Even though good hardware stores like Rocky's have a pretty good supply of nuts, bolts, screws and hardware they can't survive on that alone even if the BB doesn't have those items. They need to sell tools and lawnmowers and paint and other stuff that the BB has or they can't survive.
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i think it is more complicated than that. we had a lumber yard here that had been around since the 30's and it was doing well but the land it was on was so valuable that when the owners wanted to retire there was no way anyone could buy them out and make enough to pay the mortgage on the property and every year the same thing happens to a couple more hundred year old businesses.
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@Waher LOL, I've lived here for 18 years, and you know more about the town than I do. I wish that Rocky's hadn't closed. Must have happened around the time I got here. I'd be there every day. And I'm a couple blocks away from the hospital that flooded. Fortunately we're on much higher ground, up by the library.
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The BB stores don’t seem to have a very high quality assortment of nuts and bolts. the 1/4” bolts snap easily from my experience.
At Bolt and nut supply even NAPA you can get a better grade and better quality.
Although BB does have good fasteners for wood construction, Simpson, Grabber, Timberlok, etc
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
chain home centers pick what they sell based on how much they sell of it, not if it is essential to some use
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F W Webb one of the largest Plumbing & Heating suppliers and they suck.
I went in one day after work to the store in Springfield which is one of their largest stores. All I needed was a gauge glass set up. Comes in a box two valves and a glass, nuts and washers and guards. Nope they don't have it. I walked around the store and couldn't find it went to the counter. "we don't have those, we can make it up out of parts" I explained what I wanted ….again. I said no you can't you don't even know what I am talking about and I walked out.
We used to do a lot of work for a customer in VT. Small town but they had a Webb. Customer had HP steam through the whole plant. lots of traps, pressure reducing valve schedule 80 pipe. Expensive stuff. They used to have to order material and have it shipped in.
The facilities manager went to Webb and begged them to stock what he needed and over the course of a year they bought quite a bit just for maintenance and stuff. He tod the Webb branch manager he would give them all their business. They wouldn't do it. If you walked in and asked them for a steam trap you got the deer in the headlights look.
All residential. Any pipe over 2"? No but we can order it. Each branch only stocks what they sell. No forward thinking to get more business.
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Not to mention that since the counter people are no longer counter people they no longer know what they are doing. Im sure that this makes sense to those who know.
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I would consider it part of the overall shortage of qualified people entering the trades.
There seems to be a lot of job hopers in the wholesale business. The good counter people often get picked off by reps and manufacturers.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
I'm amused this forum somehow managed to have 3 people from the same relatively small town wind up in a discussion. I've only been here for 3 years after spending over 20 living in Boston.
FW Webb, Ferguson, and even Republic Plumbing Supply have really been doing themselves a disservice by being so stuck in their ways of doing business. I can see why SupplyHouse and even McMaster Carr (now that their shipping rates are more reasonable and the catalog more accessible) are cutting into their business.
The quality and variety of local retailers and suppliers has gone down dramatically in the past 25 years and it's not just because of competition from Home Cheapo and Blowes. Management is in general just seems to have become hostile to their customers for whatever reason.
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in the 2008 recession companies decided they could replace their customer service people with a "system" and laid off maybe 2/3 of their customer service people. After that there was 1/3 of the staff to both try to communicate with the customers and try to put it in the "system" to make management happy.
When covid happened their revenue went down briefly and they immediately laid off the remaining customer service people relying completely on the "system" that never worked in the first place then used covid as an excuse to give their customers the finger instead of blaming their poor management decisions of the past 15 years. The people that knew what they were doing decided maybe they didn't want to work for someone that would use them to balance their budget so most of those positions are still unfilled by the people that knew what they were doing.
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Indeed. The thing is, we now go in the aisles for product rather than the counter person taking our order. This has lead to a "counter person" not knowing. They seem to mostly be stock boys now.
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I agree. I retired 7 years ago so I am quite rusty LOL. Things you know and do every day you get good at. All the counter people know is names of parts and numbers…..maybe.
In the old days (here I go again) the counter people actually knew some stuff.
I worked for a couple of contractors who would hire "salesmen". I could never understand how they could sell something they knew nothing about.
Maybe they wore good at selling vacuum cleaners or washing machines but boilers and AC ?, I don't know maybe its me.
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