Boiler still leaks after changing out relief valve, Expansion Tank, Regulator, Air Vent....
Comments
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yes that spec is an AO Smith 75 gas, HD shows the Rheem for $1349 probably about the same as a 50 or 60 indirect. 12 year warranty, although it could be pro-rated?
If being without hot water while a boiler is replaced is a big concern, you could get a solar tank. A solar tank is an indirect that also has a 4500 electric element. So switch on a breaker and you have a back up.I need to find out more about these EK tank packages, they look like electric water heaters with the external heat exchanger. So a failed tank is not as expensive to replace, compared to an indirect.
There is a wide range of boiler types and prices, here is a similar boiler to what you have
personally I would go with a high efficiency modulating boiler like this. This could get you near 90% efficiencies for some of the heating season, it works well on zoned system as the burner modulates to the load changes
If I were to guess a boiler change out would be more parts,labor and $$
Where are you located,? there may be some incentives to upgrade to high efficiency equipment
Www.dsireusa.com
has all the program options for you locale.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
You’re concerned that your 30-year-old boiler may fail and leave you without hot water. It’s important to remember that if that boiler fails, you will also lose heat. When a 35- or 40-year-old boiler fails, it’s typically replaced fairly quickly—and often with a newer, more efficient gas boiler.
A new, high-efficiency boiler will also improve the efficiency of your indirect water heater. Since your current indirect water heater has no vent openings and has lasted over 20 years, that’s a strong track record. You would likely be well served by replacing it with a new indirect unit of similar size and specifications.
Just be sure the new water heater is properly connected to the boiler. Do not allow the plumber to reduce the boiler-side piping to smaller copper tubing. At minimum, keep the piping the same size, or increase it if possible.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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thank you. is there any option that you dont lose hot water if power goes out in the house? I believe tankless needs AC power and although it may be providing all the hot water, but i dont have a backup generator, so in the case of a power outage, there may not be any hot water - is that right?
thanks
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this price was including the price of the tank I assume, you’re in Long Island correct?
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yes, with the tank.
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You may be thinking of a naturally aspirated natural gas water heater with standing pilot light. These are still installed but not as often as they were 40 years ago. @hot_rod shows a picture of a 75gal Rheem model? Another example is Bradford White RG260T6N
pdf spec sheet on that line:
Overall, these have poor efficiency and there is risk of back draft (carbon monoxide). Several states do not allow these in new construction.
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i see. Yes that is what i was thinking, a naturally natrual gas water heater with standing pilot light.
between this gas water heater, and indirect - which one is consider more "obsolete"?
thanks
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neither is obsolete 10’s of millions of water heaters are installed or swapped yearly
Indirects are only viable if you have a boiler, could be 10% of homes have hydronic systems? and that number may be dropping.
Commercial applications use a variety of indirects or tanks with tube bundles inserted
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Atmospheric water heaters are on the chopping block. New DOE energy codes pretty much takes them off the market because they can't meet the new guide lines, not all but most atmospheric.
Just did a training at their facility in Tennessee and was told that they have discontinued there BTR line of commercial water heaters. They just making there Cyclones as replacements.
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Commercial ones anyway. October 6th of this year is the manufacturing cutoff, after that all commercial tank type water heaters will have to be 95%. This is after a lengthy legal challenge to the rule failed, it's set in stone. AO says the resi change happening in 2029 currently will only be a minor change for their gas fired tank units (some atmospheric units will require a damper), no change for tankless, but electric 35 gallons and up will require heat pump technology.
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thank you. At the end, i am opting for a indirect replacement.. I havea superstor ssu-60 right now.
I was presented with 2 choices from 2 quotes, please let me know if there are any pros and cons.
- Techtanium TT55 - Its 55Gallons - about $1500
- HTP SSU-60N - Another 60 Gallons (More or less a direct replacement) - Heater is about $2200
Which one would you recommend? One plumber didnt have anything good to say about HTP Superstor and he suggested the Techtanium. The other plumber just suggested the 1 to 1 replacement.
Online review says superstor quality is different nowadays.
Please let me know your view and suggestions.
Thanks!
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I prefer a glass lined steel tank, so the Techtanium. Stainless is more sensitive to certain water conditions like high chloride
Either will give you plenty of of DHW
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
I prefer stainless. But water has to be right. Low Chlorides.
How long did that prior SSU last? Do you know what temp the water tank was set too? And the boiler supply temp ? Running lower temps will generally favor the tank lasting longer, no matter what type of tank.
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before i research into all of this, i did not understand majority of these component. So the hot water thermostat has 160 set currently and the boiler temp goes from 140-180. The previous SSU lasted probably 20 years i would say.
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i got another quote today and the plumber suggested a Combi boiler that can take care of all of the concerns/demands. A combo boiler can replace the boiler, and it can also provide domestic HW.
That way i can just have 1 unit and get rid of both Boiler and indirect — any thoughts on a combi? this is the first time i hear about combi..
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Combi's have to be oversized to cover the DHW load because you have no Dhw storage tank.
Imho I would not install a combi.
A combi is like buying one appliance and expecting it to wash clothes and wash dishes and it doesn't do either one right.
But that's just my opinion
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I have owned a number of combis, here is my take.
The boiler ALWAYS needs to size to the largest load, period.
So if the DHW is a bigger load than the heating, you size to it.
Generally you want at least 110K boiler for DHW production at about 2 gpm, continuous.
500 X flow X temperature difference. 500 X 2 gpm ( incoming water at 40- 120)= 80,000 btu required
A 110 combi is about 95K output. So depending on incoming water temperature 2- 2.5 gpm is realistic with a 110- 120K combi.
So if the heating load is say 45K, pretty much all mod cons and combis are 10-1 turndown. Inside the control parameters you can limit the boiler output when it is in heating mode.
So let the boiler ramp to high fire and high temperature in DHW mode 95K output, then limit firing rate for the heating mode.
If you have low temperature radiant the output temperature can also be adjusted, or varied if you use outdoor reset. Actually the boiler becomes a bit more efficient when you limit the firing rate as you have a 110 HX firing 45K so more condensing is possible.
So sizing, if you take the time to set parameters, is not an issue. Set the boiler to 50% to get about 45K input.
In fairness, yes a combi is more complicated, more parts. And heat and DHW can go down with a single appliance.
The plate HX is fairly small and will need to be descaled occasionally. How often? Based on water hardness and how much water you flow through it.
If you are willing or able to do a descale your self, that cuts down on service $$. Basically add two tankless valves and buy a tankless descale kit. Connect two hoses and circulate cleaner for 30 minutes or so.
Bottom line, how do you use DHW, is 2-4 gpm adequate? 2 gpm will run a shower endlessly, but not much else, assuming you have a 1.5 gpm shower head.
If you want to run multiple loads together either a larger combi, 150- 199K or maybe an indirect or tank style heater is a better choice.
So you need to go over the check list and see if a combi fits you needs and comfort level. There is no one answer fits all.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
thank you both @hot_rod and @EBEBRATT-Ed for your advice.
In this case, i think i will stick with a superstore.
Is there any plumbing store website that that i can purchase indirect hot water heater myself without being a licensed plumber? Many of them requires an account and this AFSupply plumbing store online (in NY) that i was trying to buy the SSU-60 just became out of stock today (what a coincidence)… the plumber that i got a quote for told me if i can buy it myself and have it delivered into my garage, that would be better easier for him and he will only charge me labor.
Thanks,
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20 years is a decent life span. If you keep the tank temp 130-140, it will last longer, in theory. Some cities require 140 minimum.
Combis can work well. But I tend to agree with @EBEBRATT-Ed
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Box stores sell indirects and quite a few online, with free delivery.
With an owner supplied tank, any warranty issues are your responsibility.
You might price it with the plumber installing a tank he supplies, and him installing a tank you supply.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
I couldn’t find any from Lowe’s and Home Depot only has 1 SSU and it’s out of stock.
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AF Supply on Long Island has 60 Gallon Super Stor in stock l. Heat Flo & Williamson are also an excellent choice and a little cheaper than the super stor. Both should work with your set up & believe they are in stock as well
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do you have experience with AF supply website ? The Yelp reviews seems horrible which makes me second think ordering from them.
Aside from AF supply , is there any other place that you can suggest buying the ssu-60?
thank you so much in advance.0 -
FW Webb carry’s them as well
As for AF Supply I’ve only called to ask about material or to check if they have what I need in stock before going there. I haven’t ordered specifically from the website.
Many times though I’ve ordered material, In Direct tanks/boilers over the phone and gone and picked them up without having any issues
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thank you. Looks like FW Webb only takes licensed plumber as it requires an account to order.
There seems to be many AF Supply, which location do you normally call please ? Thanks.
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F.W. Webb would/should sell you the tank, it’s gas boilers and similar items that require a license to purchase. You can call and ask, I’ve done business with them and they seem okay to me.
I prefer SupplyHouse.com as the ship same day and I receive the next via ups ground. But that’s just me. They do have a number of tanks in the 50-80 gal range in stock, shipping is free.
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Freeport & Levittown(might be considered Hicksville)
FW Webb should sell you and In Direct tank, only certain products they won’t selll.
Like someone else said Supply House.com will ship right to your house but I don’t believe they carry the HTP you’re specifically looking for, could be wrong. Sent you a direct message if you have any other specific questions
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Price is good on this 60 G Laars glass lined. I like the large diameter smooth coil.
The corrugated copper coils in other brands tend to get plugged with limescale, driving down efficiency and recovery.
Cut an opening in the old one to see how it looks. After you take it out, of course.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
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