New jersey BFP required without feeder?

ChrisJ

I recall either reading something or hearing something about to a BFP not being required if you do not have an automatic feeder. Does anyone know if this is true in NJ? I wasn't able to find it in the plumbing code.

I'm getting tired of my BFP venting. It's tiny amounts that will probably never matter but I'm afraid it's going to bite me one day. If it's not actually required id feel better if I can get rid of it altogether.

I'm manual feed only.

HydronicMike

If you manually feed and have shut offs on both sides of your BFP, might as well leave it in.

I think it’s always going to release a little if you don’t keep pressure on both sides.

Many boiler feed instructions say to not leave street pressure 'on', so I guess that means they are all supposed to be manual feed?

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1871638#Comment_1871638

I used to shut the valve before it off, but I started thinking maybe I want to keep pressure to it.

So I feed using the valve after it.

ChrisJ

This is what I'm using.

EdTheHeaterMan

I believe that the code requires a BFP even if you do not have an auto feed. The idea is to keep the boioer pressure from pushing water back into the potable system. This includes the village idiot that will open the manual boiler feed valve during a high pressure limit failure and a situation where the potable water is turned off so you have a boiler under higher pressure than the potable water system. The village idiot then opens the valve as a way of testing something that they know nothing about.

Keep the BFP in there even if you never let the village idiot into your home. You never know who your kids might let in the house.

EBEBRATT-Ed

With steam and no auto feeder just a manual valve no BFP is required as far as I know. On a hot water boiler with a PRV a backflow is required.

Intplm.

It is also required by your local department of public health.

BFP are required, auto feed or manual feed. It's not the style of how water gets into the boiler; it's what is potentially in the water that is the concern.

clammy

in new jersey a backflow is required on steam boilers feed line . To not have your backflow drip after manually feeding is to not remove pressure from the backflow so the real deal is to have a shut off before and after the backflow and use the out let valve for feeding this is nothing new and most who are not are being penny wise dollar foolish install this way and the customer ends up paying either way just less issues . It may seem uncommon but i have been doing it this way for many years yeah costs me 2 brass nipples and a ips ball valve big deal . this also holds true for house prv they should have a shut off before and after and unless you want o replace leave the pressure on to the valve and just use the outlet valve to shut the water off it will save you replacing the domestic prv being most prv fail after the pressure has been removed especially if a older valve .

clammy

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1871667#Comment_1871667

That's exactly how I've been doing it, as removing pressure from the BFP all of the time seemed like a bad idea. I don't remember what my reasoning for two valves was, I suspect it was recommended here on HH so I did it. I do exercise the inlet valve a few times a year, but I keep the feeding valve after the BFP closed while I do it.

The amount it vents is so little I never realized it was even doing it until I put a clear hose on it that runs horizontally, so it holds drops for a while and gets white stains etc.

But everyone's convinced me. I'll leave the BFP and just beef up my vent to deal with if there's a bad issue.

hot_rod

Is your location under a State adopted code? Which one?

There may be local codes that require a specific device

In some areas if the country a non vented dual check is accepted.

This non vented BFD has an ASSE 1024 listing, for example

Your local plumbing inspector should know and be the final say?

Intplm.

This ^^^^^^^^ is excellent if allowed by code. It's less problematic and will not leak like the RPZs that we are installing for boiler feed. Would very much like to see these approved, and why not as a combination auto-fill and BFP?

hot_rod

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1871770#Comment_1871770

it comes down to how the inspector classifies boiler water. If it is filled with potable water, no chemicals, that could be considered low hazard. The ASSE 1024 is for low hazard applications.

Mainly the inspector would be concerned about someone adding a cleaner or chemicals down the road.

Then a BFD with a higher hazard level might apply. Either a vented dual check, or an RPZ with test ports.

Lot of interpretation in accepting BFDs by AHJs. It is rare to see a code book site a specific BFD number.

mattmia2

the michigan residential code specifies this

P2902.5 Protection of Potable Water Connections

Connections to the potable water shall conform to Sections P2902.5.1 through P2902.5.5.

P2902.5.1 Connections to Boilers

Where chemicals will not be introduced into a boiler, the potable water supply to the boiler shall be protected from the boiler by a backflow preventer with an intermediate atmospheric vent complying with ASSE 1012 or CSA B64.3. Where chemicals will be introduced into a boiler, the potable water supply to the boiler shall be protected from the boiler by an air gap or a reduced pressure principle backflow prevention assembly complying with ASSE 1013, AWWA C511 or CSA B64.4.

hot_rod

A 1012 will be a dual check with atmospheric vent.

Intermittent BFD spit can be cured with a swing check upstream, often.

When a fast closing valve creates the shock that causes the BFD to flutter, the swing check catches that force and tends to cancel it.

Of course you will hear that check slap.

A water hammer arestor at the quick valves can help.

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1871792#Comment_1871792

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0_4hkfR7WE