Boiler Heats House and Pool

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes · June 1

One of my customers had me out yesterday to re-light the pilot light on his boiler. He heats his pool in the summer and the house (radiant) in the winter with the same boiler. The pilot wouldn't stay lit and I started replacing the thermocouple, got my head down on the ground to get a good look inside the firebox and noticed a very large pile of debris including two or three burners that somehow fell off the manifold. Small job turns big.

This is the original 70-year old, MC Universal boiler, 160K BTU. As far as I know, there is no HX for the pool heating. Somehow, the chlorine in the pool water doesn't bother the copper HX in the boiler, but would react with a stainless steel HX in a new boiler. The work to replace the boiler will have to include a separate HX for the pool.

mattmia2 · June 1

i bet it is all sooted up from the low temp pool water and that is what destroyed the burners.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes · June 1

I have since found out that copper tubing is encased in the gunite around the pool, so there’s no chlorine to worry about.
Interesting that it’s only a 007 circulator. My guess is that the 1” tubing leaving the mechanical room goes to a copper manifold with 1/2” tubing circling the pool.

EBEBRATT-Ed · June 2

@Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Looks like your getting yourself into a nice mess on this one!!😊😊😊😊

ScottSecor · June 2

@Alan (California Radiant) Forbes so, if I understand this correctly, the pool is heated with a radiant copper loop on the sides of the pool? In addition, this radiant system and boiler have been in operation since the 1950's? That's pretty impressive!

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes · June 2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1857035#Comment_1857035

There are about a dozen of my customers that still have this brand of boiler working for them. Charlie Pistante - long gone now - was the guy that installed it. His sticker is on the cover plate of one of the junction boxes. He continued working well into his 80's because he needed the money to pay his wife's medical bills.

Such a simple system, no? Flue gas condensation? Probably, considering the pile of combustion debris below the burner. Maybe it's was self-cleaning.

HVACNUT · June 3

How many gallons is the pool? 160K input isn't much. Maybe plate heat exchangers for both sides.

hot_rod · June 3

Can you get some S&R piping to the pool equipment and install HX into the pool loop. I wonder about the life expectancy of the copper in Gunite?

What size pool?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes · June 3

”Normal” pool size. 30’ x 20’ x 7’ deep at the deep end. Yes, that’s a lot of water with a relatively small boiler, but it seems to work for them.
They only use it in the summer; probably wouldn’t work so well in the winter.
Since we can only install condensing equipment here in the Bay Area, the boiler would have to be working off setpoint in the summer; reset in the winter.

MarkMurf · June 5

Given the application, would perhaps a possibly too high delta T cause an inordinate amount of moisture on the combustion side of the vessel ? This causing the traditional issue of the by-products of combustionn ie ; sulphur, soot (unburned fuel), and ash adhering to that moisture ? In a extreme condition the weight of such impurities might have ill-effected the positioning of said burner tubes ? As with the preferred modern piping arrangements on the new smaller heat exchangers, maybe a primary, secondary loop piping set-up would alleviate the condition. And excuse this old timer but, isn't that one Grundfos circ pump installed in an incorrect position ? I'll believe so.

hot_rod · June 5

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1857255#Comment_1857255

it is a stainless body pump also. Must be for the pool water 😆judging by the color, it has been in there awhile.

Roger · June 5

I thought this link may be of interest here. It has information about how Energy Kinetics Smart Pool Heater uses the excess capacity of boilers in the summer to heat pools. The plate heat exchanger is non-stick and corrosion resistant Sealix® coated (silicon dioxide), making it extremely robust in pool water applications. The flyer has a basic piping diagram and references how quickly various pool sizes will heat up with boilers ranging from 100,000 BTU/hr to 300,000 BTU/hr (with minimal heat loss). We'd recommend a bypass and properly setting the hydronic flow to prevent the return from condensing while pool heating.

The heat exchanger should be installed outdoors, so if the pool piping every breaks/leaks, you do not end up with an indoor pool…

Best,

Roger

EBEBRATT-Ed · June 6

They don't need much heat in CA. I visited a relative out there once and I remarked how the city water line was on the outside of the house above ground. "Won't that freeze" They all laughed at me.

Larry Weingarten · June 6

Hi, It doesn't happen often, but we had a freeze in the 1990s that had all of the plumbers out until around midnight dealing with burst pipes and cracked valves. Even plumbing at homes right near the ocean had freeze damage… It's not all that hard to do the work in a way that's less likely to freeze, so I do.

They shouldn't have laughed at you!

Yours, Larry

Roger · June 6

I have friends in southern California that have a boiler and central air conditioning. They're also near the ocean and have lived in the house for 30 years and told me a few years ago that they have never used either…

hot_rod · June 6

maybe a portable pool heater is in their future?

mattmia2 · June 6

might as well just put a 5 gallon bucket of oil next to an oil boiler…

Boiler Heats House and Pool

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