Freeze Proof Sill Cock
We occasionally install freeze proof sill cocks. Our local supply houses carry two brands, both have underperformed. After less than one year, we learned that the valves will not open unless you open and close the valves a few times. In another case, the valve handle was so difficult to open a wrench had to be used. We chose these two different valves as they were available locally. For the record, we did not solder (overheat) these units to the copper water lines and the pressure is around fifty PSI.
Our daughter recently purchased a home and they need two freeze proof sill cocks. Does anyone have a recommendation for what works for more than a year without issues? I see some brands advertised in trade journals but I do not know which models hold up.
Thank you.
Comments
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The ones I've used at home and the shop are Woodford.
I even had the kids leave a hose on one with the nozzle shut and it blew ice out of the vacuum breaker and still works to this day years later. No idea how but it does.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Wolverine Brass were the best...don't even know if they make anything close to it, but they were thick, Red Brass. Two in my own hone 22 yrs..never a drip. Mad Dog
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I like the woodford ones. they are not low lead so you have to go with the that part of the system isn't water used for cooking or drinking exception. I think some of the woodford ones have some sort of pressure relief built in to the stem that lets the pressure from them freezing with a hose attached get pushed back in to the supply.
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I like the solid brass brands. Look for one that will drain out even with a hose connected.
I really dislike the plastic handle models.
I like hot and cold in valve, in one location for washing the truck. I have the C-108 , shown below my house and shop. It uses "00" bib washers which might make @mattmia2 happy. Or not:)
Getting harder to find solid copper/ brass, but Prier is one brand.
I have not tried the newest 114 model, I think Eric Aune at Mechanical-Hub put one on his shop a while back.
The 1/4 turn are not as handy, if you try to regulate water for a garden soaker hose for example.
Arrowhead brass is another quality bib. They have an "Icebreaker" model that protects from freezing.
https://www.prier.com/residential/\
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
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Not that I'm aware of. The check valve is considered part of the backflow preventer.
The ones I have, besides a vacuum breaker also have an internal checkvalve. Besides the garden hose, I believe this check valve is also related to the valve not being lead free as you mentioned. My interpretation is they can be used connected to potable systems, but don't drink from the sillcock.
That said, the vacuum breaker is very easy to replace and cheap, so even if mine had failed it wouldn't be a big deal.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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The model 19 has the pressure relief valve:
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I stand corrected.
How could that be considered acceptable for it to operate as a BFP, except if it freezes, then, what happens happens?
Interesting.
I think all of the ones I've used have been model 17's.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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We've had good luck with Prier frost proof silcocks
We replace dozens each spring where homeowners forget to disconnect hoses.
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The plastic handle and funky shut off washer on the Woodfords drive me crazy.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
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mine has a metal handle. although it has corroded a bit. I believe the actual washer is just like a 1/4 large but there is a check valve also stacked on the stem. Don't know, haven't had to do anything with it beyond tightening the packing.
It isn't rpz backflow protection, it doesn't have to be effective in all conditions. It would still keep water from syphoning from the hose.
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Prier looks to be the closest match to the Wolverine Brass ones I loved. Mad Dog
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Certain models have that plug type shut-off washer. Looks like the basic 14 have washers.
The BFD on a hose bib or the ones you add on are actually a high hazard type BFD classification. These protect both the building itself, and the main line, should there not be a BFD on the building itself.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Yes, MD, Prier is the same quality as WB. And the back plate is pitched where it meets the siding.
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None of my Woodford 17's have plastic handles.
I wouldn't like that either.
I'll be looking at Prier the next time I need one and consider them as well.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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I liked that I could get a woodford with a propex connector on it.
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BFD? Back Flow Device?
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
I'd look at parts availability too. when the vacuum breaker seal starts leaking will you be able to find the parts to fix it?
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When we put them into a wall, I would leave a big loop of pex so it could be pulled out and replaced without cutting into a sheetrock wall.
I modified a Woodford into a 10' long version to go out under a deck, into the rim joist. I lengthened the outer jacket, it is 3/4 CST, and lengthened the brass rod inside.
Installed on Russ Roses cabin on Table Rock lake :) Some of you know that name from Heatway daze!
It worked for years until a neighbor connected a hose one winter, preventing it from draining.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
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Thank you to all that commented. I have some shopping to do!
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did prier buy mansfield or something? the prier 400 series looks like the mansfield ones with the big plastic handle that are popular around here that aren't bad but some parts are a little cheesy.
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Yes Prier aquired Mansfield almost 20 years ago.
Prier and Sioux Chief are close together near KC. I thought that they might combine at some point.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
The under the deck ones I've done are an angled pipe to a regular sillcock. Vacuum breaker and shutoff inside.
But yeah, have to close the shutoff and remember to leave the sillcock open.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
if you used a mansfield the stem is just copper tube with the end squashed in to something resembling a square too, 3/8" cts if i remember.
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This Woodford had a solid brass stem. I soldered 3/8 hard drawn copper tube over it to make the extension.
The bib was already there, under the deck, I just extended itBob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
This company name…"Prier" the model with the heavy duty green handle. This one shown has a built in Vacuum breaker (VB). They come in a few different length. You would want one that extends into the heated space to help prevent freeze ups.
@ScottSecor I have found that sometimes user error destroys a frost proof sillcock. They need to drain. If a customer sees water draining from the sillcock after "shutting it off", they crank it down harder thinking they haven't shut the thing off when they actually have, because it is…draining. This extra crank down can bust the valve. This happens with any frost proof as they are all made to drain. This Prier sillcock is pretty tough and can last a life time.
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I put two of those Priers in last year. Seemed to be good quality.
I bought mine at Home Depot, but the same faucet (Prier C-144D10) is $10 less from Supply House. One of the Home Depot reviewers says the ones from Supply House are better quality, but that difference may be imaginary. Some reviewers on both sites say they've have problems with the packing leaking, but mine have been fine.
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there are about 50 variations so what you get at home depot is probably the more stripped down version and might be a special spec for them. you need to adjust the packing nut, doubt you would have a problem after that
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the prier hot and cold single handle frost proof is very nice all brass construction. but it isnt cheap the ones i have put in the people love. maybe someone can post a picture i didnt even know they existed till a year or 2 ago. the supply houses dont stock them most counter people dont even know they exist
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As a Professional with a reputation to uphold, putting in anything inexpensive (junk) is nothing but a callback waiting to happen. I get consulting clients that take a deep gulp when they see what a Gorton # 2 costs..until I point out the fuel they save will pay itself off in short order. Mad Dog
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If the reduced cost is just from removing some cosmetic frills, no problem. I doubt they use cheaper, thinner brass forgings or internals on the price point models?
When manufacturers chose to sell directly to the box stores or e commerce, often the rep and wholesalers mark up are being cut out of the sales prices, that is where the $$ comes out.
Although some manufacturers do commission their reps for e commerce sales in their territory.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
peerless vs delta seemed to be a big jump in quality though they were still the same basic faucet.
they put one of those in on ask this old house last week.
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The picture Hot Rod shows of the Woodford #25 is my go to. It is some what of an industrial valve, but the nice part is that you can leave a hose on it and it will not freeze, because it is built so that the water drains out around the hose connection every time you shut it off. I really like these when you have a customer that has one in the backyard and will forget to take the hose off every year. The drawback is that they take a bit more install room as the are wider.
Rick
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My only complaint with Woodford is the plastic handles are sometimes wobbly and need a washer underneath.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
could some post the this old house video i cant seem to find it online
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I have the #25's on my house.
The disadvantage is if you shut off the water with a closed pistol spray on the end of the hose, you then get a bath from the drain back because of the pressure built up in the hose.
At one time, there was an up-sale model that would not do that….a few more dollars.
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thanks for posting that . way better than a 2 handle shower valve with is actually against code now
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the 2 handle valve is not against code. it is against code without some sort of temp limit on the supply to the hot water. that valve i don't think is pressure balanced or has a limit stop so it does not meet the code exception that lets you not have a temp limiting device on a shower.
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