Rinnai E110CRP Max Heating Temperature at Certain Flow Volumes
I have a Rinnai model E110CRP that has the following issues. At the kitchen and bathroom sink faucet the water temperature is 99 – 101 Fahrenheit continuous flow. The water coming out of the shower and tub has a higher flow rate with a temperature of 90 degrees Fahrenheit at constant flow.
What I have done. I have cleaned the system with a vinegar flush. The system was very contaminated with bits of black particulates of various sizes. The vinegar became cloudy. I had to start over and filter the vinegar coming out to avoid recontaminating the system. At the end the the vinegar was completely clean free of particulates and any discoloration.
The hot water heater does function and heats the water. The gallons per minute of water it cannot heat at higher temperatures when the flow volume is to high. With the theromostatic mixing valve set to the hottest water temperature position, the water’s max temperature at a low flow out location should at least get to 110 degrees Fahrenheit.
What I have deduced is I have something limiting the flow of hot water or the water heater can no longer produce hot water at higher volumes.
The age of the TMV and the water heater are four years old. The TMV has a leak on the output side and a slight one on the hot water input. The latter leak started after the PEX line was replace 5 days ago. The heating water issue started before this.
Next steps suggestions to help diagnose this please?
When I open the service valve on the hot water side, poring the water into a bucket. The temperature is in the upper 70s. I suspect the output water flow is to high for the water heater to heat and this is why the temperature is so low. There could be an issue with the thermostic material or stuck mixing valve in the TMV. I will dissemble and clean it next.
Attached are photos of the system.
Comments
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btu/hr = 500 gpm dt Fahrenheit
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What temperature is the Rinnai set to? It needs to be about 25° hotter than the mix valve setting. So if the mix valve is set to 115, the Rinnai needs to be hotter, about 140° All three way thermostatic valves need the temperature difference to work properly. What is the final temperature you are looking for?
Some of the newer mix valves can work with a lower temperature difference. The 520 AngleMix has an 18° requirement.
Now if you don't meet that temperature requirement on the hot side, the valve will still flow water, but the temperature will float around, too, cold, just right, maybe over-shoot a bit. It needs a temperature differential for the internal cartridge to respond and track accurately.
Also at least a .5 gpm flow rate through the valve.
It's possible that tankless could regulate as accurately as the mix valve if it were removed and the tankless set to 115, or whatever you need.
Turn the knob from one extreme to the other will free up the cartridge if it happen to be stuck.
I don't see flush valves under the tankless, that is the best way to clean the HX. Remove the 3 way and soak it in vinegar of descaler.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
I forgot to add the photo of the updated plumbing with the service valves installed.
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In the documentation I am struggling to find where I set the temperature of the hot water system. Any assistance would be great.
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I use the same pump and cleaner to flush out the mix valve. Here are some before/ after pics of a scaled 3 way
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Genius,this is will try and report back. I will get a photo of my setup for doing the flush maintenance.
I am trying to find where one sets the temperature. There is no clear process in the manual. I am searching in the manual located here.
Not really finding much and then I found this
Apparently I need to adjust the dip switches to change the output temperature for the domestic hot. It says it is set to 140 by default which is hot enough. I just would like to verify what the output temperature is set at before adjusting dip switches. The user interface on this is not particularly clear. This is where I am stuck. Any suggestions on how to interpret this manual?
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They do not make this easy. I found this on Rinnai's website.
Can I set the temperature higher than 140°F?
For your safety, Rinnai tankless water heaters come with a maximum temperature default setting of 120℉ to help prevent scalding. However, by following these simple steps, you can increase the temperature to 140℉ if you choose.Flow the six (6) step process to adjust your temperature:
- Unplug the unit. For safety, always unplug any appliance before continuing.
- Remove the front cover by removing the screws behind the plastic tabs on the 4 corners of the plate.
- Locate the dip switches, which are located under the bottom right corner beneath the label.
- Find dip switch number 6 and turn it on. You may use a small screwdriver if necessary.
- Replace the front cover, securing it with the screws and reclip the plastic tabs.
- Plug the unit back in.
Now you can increase the temperature to 140℉ on the front face of the unit.
Need more help? Click here for a helpful video detailing the process.
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have we checked the cartridge to make sure it is opening all the way, located behind the actuator under the circulator
Those. Instructions are for a tankless and don’t apply to this boiler. You cannot adjust the temp
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on the control push and hold the upper right hand button about 5 seconds, this is the technical readout of the control.
Run the Sink or shower, The screen you say 4 *** the three digits is the boiler temp and the 4 means the boiler is running for DHW.
What position is the actuator lever in? This is the grey Honeywell box directly under the circulator. We are just looking at the whiteish lever on top of the box. Is it towards the wall or towards you?
If it is towards the wall with the controller saying 4*** more than likely a cartridge is stuck.
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I noticed the instructions are for a water heater unit that I do not have. "have we checked the cartridge to make sure it is opening all the way, located behind the actuator under the circulator" are we talking about the thermostatic mixing valve?
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I see what you are asking I will look at this and report back.
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If you haven't messed with any of the parameter settings, the factory settings for DHW gives you 140 degree water out of the unit. Does the hot outlet pipe to the hot side of the mixing valve feel close to 140? If it does, your mixing valve is the problem. If it's not, there is a flow restrictor on the cold inlet to the flat plate HEX. It's plastic and it might be compromised and letting too much flow to the flat plate and the boiler can't keep up to maintain the 140 outlet temp. I think the flow restrictor for that model is green.
When running hot water, make sure the 3 - way valve closes. the white lever should be toward you, away from the wall. For heating, the lever moves toward the wall..It not, the cartridge could be sticking. You need to remove the cartridge wipe it down, make sure o-rings are good and lightly lube with valve grease. Also clean the brass body with a wire-fitting brush and make sure no junk is in the body before reinstalling the cartridge.
If you recently changed some of your house water piping, make sure you don't have a crossover anywhere.
Is there glycol in the system on the heating side or have you had any non-barrier pex on the heat side or do you have hard water? If so, the flat plate may be crudded up on the boiler side.
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The max output temperature is 130 Fahrenheit. The switch is towards the wall. I see a plunger. I cleaned a regressed it.
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4 and the temp means it's in DHW and that lever should be forward. Push the bottom left button so the blue light goes off, that does not need to be on. Then press the top left button off, that kills the CH (central heating) call, Did the lever shift toward you? If not, pop off the head of the 3 way and with some channel locks, pull up on the plunger. Is the temp going up now?
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I meant the max temperature is 130 degress Fahrenheit. The reading max out at "4130" when the hot water was turned on. That white lever never moves. I try what you suggested tomorrow and report back.
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if you look closely at this photo. Does this look like it can travel any further up? This is currently where it rests. If we are talking about the same thing. This is what you want me to pull out even more correct? I did push it in and it goes in all the way. I can pull this up with some channel locks just to see if it is all the way up aka spring and plate holding it at their maximum depressed state. Is this a way I can test if the valve is in max hot water position? Remove the Honeywell valve actuator. Then pull this all the way up and make a request for hot water and see if it gets to 140 Fahrenheit or can handle the higher volume of hot water request.
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when you say : ..It not, the cartridge could be sticking. You need to remove the cartridge wipe it down, make sure o-rings are good and lightly lube with valve grease. Also clean the brass body with a wire-fitting brush and make sure no junk is in the body before reinstalling the cartridge
Are you talking about removing the brass three way from the three hoses and cleaning it? Which part of this is the cartridge? Also what is green?0 -
The cartridge is the spring with the stem at the end of it . See your imagine 0678, pull that spring out to you as far as you can with your pliers. Grab it by the stem not the spring. Leave the actuator off, run the water to test for temp and such. It is probably back to normal.
I wouldn’t mess around with cleaning the cartridge. Replace it, it comes with the tool to remove the cartridge. Rinnai # 807000030
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the controller if it is reading 4 130 just mean 4 running for hot water and the next 3 numbers is the supply temp of the boiler not your domestic hot water temp
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] Solution Solved [
Hilltown and Slimpickins thanks for the help with this. I owe you both a beer. The plunger was indeed stuck at 9.12 mm after pulling it out and freeing it. The length of the lash was 16.44 mm. That is a delta of 7.32 mm. The temperatures are solid with high volume domestic hot water requests and even hotter at low volume by 10 degrees.
Hilltown, having the part numbers really helped with know what things look like. Your insights helped me create the proper testing environment I needed to verify the problem! I am waiting for the part to come so I may replace. You are are the best and have a great week.
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I'll take an IPA!
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angry orchard for me.
last closing thought, on the controller you only want the bottom left indicator on if you have heating zones with no thermostat.0 -
Thanks for this bit of information. It will be helpful to anyone reading this thread.
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This is what came out.
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