Issue with Burner AFG Becket Gensys7505 controller or EK 2000 Frontier
Superbowl morning I lost heat. I am a mechanical Engineer so was comfortable trying to diagnose to my limited capabilities given standard tools.
No error code on my EK controller is displaying although it has been operating strangely occasionally "Giving me a error Classic Mode" when it is not a classic controller. I was told its a sign the controller is starting to go potentially bad when I called EK about it.
Anyway the EK controller says pre-heating.
The burner is in lockout. I try to override/turbo mode oil is pulling as I opened up the prime port, steady stream, my oil tank says 3/4 of tank or so. Tried this three times to make sure I was not crazy. 2 of the 6 times it sounded like it ignited the burner was green, but instantly the flame went out. So I opened up the nozzle to see if the electrodes were clean and the oil diffuser… Pretty much perfectly clean which makes sense as the tune up was done less then 2 months ago. The flame light sensor is perfectly clean as well.
Anyone familiar with EK and know if it could be the boiler controller that is causing this issue, or whether it is more likely the Beckett burner controller acting wonky or a clog in the nozzle that is not visible.
Thanks for the help….
Comments
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This sounds like a burner / primary control issue and has nothing to do with the EK control. Let me do some research or perhaps @Roger or someone else from EK might chime in before I get back
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I just am unfamiliar if the EK controller has any control over the burner control. I agree and assume its the burner control, which would be better news for me since the people who know how to properly diagnose EK issues appear to be dwindling in my area.
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Let me say this about your statement
"I try to override/turbo mode oil is pulling as I opened up the prime port, steady stream, my oil tank says 3/4 of tank or so. Tried this three times to make sure I was not crazy. 2 of the 6 times it sounded like it ignited the burner was green, but instantly the flame went out. "
Placing the primary control into Pump Prime Mode up to 6 times may be allowing unburned oil enter the combustion chamber and cause what we call a "saturation". That is when unburned oil soaks into the refractory material of the combustion chamber and unburned oil lays in the bottom of the combustion area. Eventually when the burner does light off after repairs, that unburned oil needs to be addressed. The safety timing on the Genisys 7505 is 15 seconds andwill hard lockout after 3 attempts. That is a total of only 45 seconds of unburned oil. If you have "tried to override" that safety feature by using the "pump prime mode" feature on that control up to 6 times, you may have put 24 minutes of unburned fuel in the chamber. You need to tell the repair tech that information because without that knowledge, you may need a visit from the fire department once the burner does light off.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Search EK 2 Minute Display Manager Diagnostic PDF. Maybe run through some of those steps.
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The manager can't cause the boiler to lockout on safety. It will work with a relay to power the circulator and the Beckett primary as well as fire the burner using the TT terminals on the front of the primary. there are many reasons that the unit could be shutting and most likely it is a control or burner issue but could also be related to draft. The Beckett primary holds the diagnostic history which you can access with a contractor tool or an app on your phone depending on the model of the primary. With it shutting off so quickly I am thinking it may be a solenoid valve that is leaking by and you are getting flame on pre purge but that just an assumption. Regarding the manager saying classic mode that is an error code that usually shows 150 classic mode that is showing that boiler return did not hit 100 degrees in five minutes, after 25 minutes the error will change to a 140 freeze protection mode which you would have to manually reset by cycling the systems power.
John Ringel Energy Kinetics
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After looking closely at the EK wiring diagram the Beckett primary control does not interact with the EK control system after the EK control(s) send the call for heat to the burner. the only way that the burner can go into lockout is by a function of the primary control not getting a good flame signal. This problem has to do with the flame and the flame signal inside the combustion chamber or lack thereof. The Beckett 7505 is properly doing the job of shutting the burner down as a result of a flame failure condition.
I recommend that you call your fuel oil supplier's service department or a qualified oil burner technician.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Check the Igniter. If good, check for 130 psi at the nozzle line only after pre purge. What's the draft in the chamber while idle and during TFI?
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Update: So I had turned off the boiler (via the emergency switch) after playing with the burner for the 5-6 times with no fix probably around 11AM yesterday.
Left it off till the plumber tech got here (about 24 hours), turn the switch on. The system starts right away no issues (proper burning, proper oxygen, proper monoxide) and is working properly. Because its a gensys 7505 controller the guy said he has no idea what is wrong and could be a number of things like bad oil, issue with flue from wind, etc.
He suggested I replace the primary controller with either the new digital beckett which can store errors so if it happens again it would be easier to diagnose. However I dont see a beckett digital controller listed in their products. I know he said Carlin makes one too but I dont see anything for the price he said. He said they were like $500 dollars.
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Anyone know what models he could be talking about or have any suggestions for the new primary controller that has digital display with error codes or error information.
Only one i saw is the Carlin Pro-X 70200 but the price only appears to be like 80 dollars? Unless that 500 dollars included his labor which seems extensive for a quick rewire job to me.
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The GeniSys 7505 primary DOES store fault codes. That "tech" needs to get the Contractor Tool to access them. Where are you located? We might know someone who can actually help you…………….
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting
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in suffolk county ny
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What were the combustion numbers from 2 months ago?
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Combustion was proper at the 2 month tuning and combustion numbers were good today when the tech checked them.
I see that genisys does have fault storage for past 15 firings. Not sure why the tech did not bother to look at it. Although it sounds like he didnt have the capability given his suggestion of a different controller. Probably too late now as its been running on and off so probably past the 15 firings with no issues.
Really strange. Did have him swap out my faulty 007e circulator for a 007.
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I wouldnt necessarily mind replacing the controller since I dont have faith the problem wont occur again. Anyone have experience with that Carlin controller or better controller with error fault read outs. Also I assume if I replace the controller I will need to get another tune up at the time right?
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You don't have enough answers to condemn the primary.
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You can get the Contractor Tool or the Carlin Primary Control that has the diagnostics display already on the control. If your technician was any good at oil heat, they would have had the contractor tool and figured out what is wrong.
BTW. the contractor tool and the Carlin will remember the faults and tell you how many cycles ago the fault happened. At least the Carlin remembers the previous faults / events. not just the last 15 cycles. I remember getting "low ignition voltage 28 cycles ago" or "Ignition failure 114 cycles ago". I would put that control on for customers to find what went wrong with the burner when I am not there and found that the filter was clogged because the problem only happened if the run cycle was more than 15 minutes. On shorter cycles the fuel pump vacuum didn't reach the point of flame failure. Another un-findable failure was "low ignition amperage" telling me that the ignition transformer was not reaching full spark on every trial for ignition. I'm not sure that I would find that even if I was there when it happened. There are all types of error and information messages that are stored on the Carlin Primary Control menu if you know how to find it.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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He said that it only stores 15 cycles on the beckett whether there is an error or not. He also said he believed the issue was my circulator was going in and out of turning off so the burner kept short cycling (appears so far 3 days that may be the reason).
To be fair this is not my normal boiler guy he was just away for week and waiting a week without heat is no fun.
I agree he should have atleast tried the contractor tool although he told me when he installs my boiler types (EK System 2000) he automatically switches to the Carlin digital display which suggests he may not have the tool.
Which Carlin are you referring to the Pro X 70200?
I assume if I switch to that which I think I will for purposes of diagnostically knowing myself the issue, I would need to get my boiler guy I normally use to come tune it as the controller is probably programmed differently from my current controller correct.
Thanks for the help.
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If you are going to purchase a new Primary Control regardless, then the Carlin 70200S-Pro has the most diagnostic features. As I said before, I will sometimes add that control to a system just to find what those nuisance lockout problems are, then put the old primary control back on after I fix the issue. Most of the time, The customer wants to keep the control and just pay for it
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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