Common issues (low hanging fruit)

eddiecalder

What are some of the most common hydronic installation issues you find? I'm not talking about things that need an experienced tradesperson to find (pipe sizing, pump selection), I'm talking about the low hanging fruit.

A couple examples that come to mind for me are:

1- Not properly installing condensate neutralizers. The outlet is supposed to be higher than the inlet. I see condensate neutralizers installed vertically and just allow the condensate to flow freely to the drain without allowing any type of dwell time. (I blame the manufacturers as much as anyone for this. You can by the cheaper condensate neutralizers off the shelf without any type of instructions).

2- Gas regulator installation issues. Vent limiters installed outside, vent protectors not being used, vertical installation with a 90 to change the orientation of the vent limiter. I'm specifically talking about Maxitrol 325. they have a 95% market share where I am.

Anyone have any other examples?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Yeah. #1 is installers installing steam boilers.

They either never learned to read if and when they went to school or they know more than anyone else and refuse to read the install manual.

GGross

I would say pipe size and pump selection requires no more experience than the things you mentioned. less in my opinion because its fairly intuitive to someone who knows nothing about hydronics that pipe size and pump selection must matter because there are different pumps and different size pipes so a novice who knows nothing might think to check these things. Quick rule of thumb references are available freely and easily with a google search and will serve most jobs adequately. 20 minutes or so reading about it and you are able to crunch the numbers yourself. For simple residential jobs this stuff is very basic level stuff, the most basic really.

Sol_Brother

In addition to my usual complaints about lack of labeling of pipes and wires, I would say too many zones and proprietary manifold/zone valve actuators have caused more problems in the long run than anything else. By "too many zones" I mean using manifolds with one actuator per loop and making every loop its own zone with its own thermostat. It is the rare space that needs that high resolution control. And I have had several customers who have been faced with ripping out a whole manifold set because we could no longer get the actuators (I'm looking at you, Honeywell PowerTrack MZV520-RP) or a manifold valve's packing leaks and parts are no longer available. I prefer to use a plain manifold, external loop shut-off valves (not built into the manifold), and repairable/replaceable zone valves (preferred is ball valve type such as Taco's Zone Sentry).

jesmed1

I'm not a heating pro, but I learned from the pros here that our Weil Mclain cast iron hot water boilers should have been installed with bypasses for protection against low return water temps. Since then, as I've read installation instructions for cast iron boilers from other mfrs, it seems that virtually every cast iron boiler mfr requires a bypass for return water temp protection. And it seems many cast iron boiler installation pics posted here by homeowners with problems lack the required bypasses.

So it appears that many installers commonly ignore the mfr's bypass requirement for cast iron hot water boilers, either because they don't read the manual or because they know the customer won't know the difference.

Maybe these are the same guys who don't read the manuals when piping steam boiler headers. 🤔

clammy

A common issue i see is home owners using public service for there service programs as per monthly charge on bill to find that when they have no heat that there really not much there going to do except show up any thing on the water side will not be worked on as it is against there policy but they will install and finance anything from water heater ,steam ,hot water and hot air and ac jobs .It may not be the pet peeves that your looking for .

The number one issue i see is home owners who of course finish there basement and then install white carpet frame out and enclose there boiler in a small room w zero lights and zero combustion air and they have a steam boiler ,enclose and soffit all piping hiding all main vents crossover traps and then except a magic wand to fix there 100 year old system w the universal question of what is this going to cost and how long will this take as they call every heating contractor as to compare prices looking for a deal lol. . While i put my third eye to work figuring how long it will take to put down plastic and drop clothes to protect my self from servicemaster cleaning services and then remove and have them cleaned for the next one while satisfying the desire to get a bargain .

As for common install bs how about zero isolation valves for pumps and main component's for ease of service and how about a isolation and drain for expansion tanks weather portable or heating making it easy to isolate and chk tank pressure plus when they go just hook up your pump on the tank and blow the water out as to not take a bath or have it filled w water and fall breaking who knows what. The biggest real issue i see is a lack of craftsmanship that is not included most jobs i see look like a drive by shooting or a hit and run . As for wiring and low voltage the lack of use of multi circulator and zone valve relays is completely stupid and amazingly cheap being tracing out unmark stat ,zone valve and system sensor wires can be a pia and costly while the simple use of colored cable ties on low voltage wiring and supply n return piping also for remote sensors ,outdoor, indoor sensor,zone valve wiring making it so anyone can figure it out fairly quick except maybe a blind man . The continued creation of birds nests of wiring on new construction jobs like a multi zone panel would have create cost over runs . If you lose money because of one multi zone panel you are in the wrong business and do not know how to price the work correctly . the use of telephone wire for stsat wire and the running of 18 -2 for tstats how about running a 3 or 4 conductor wire .

A lack of proper pipe support ,the bending and off setting of threaded rod to hold a pipe clamp . Rod supporting a clevis or tear drop hanger should drop vertically straight not have a offset bend because the framing is not directly above if it ain't above you cut a piece of wood nail it up and continue plain and simple, a rod w a offset and it hanger on it is not truly the correct way to hang something but it does make people feel that it is being supported .If is was so right then go hang a air handler w bends in the rods looks like dog pooh and i ve never seen it as being proper in any where just hack stuff so no one can say hey where a hanger on that but it does make people feel good like there supporting something i guess . I know some of my old bosses would have kicked my butt and made me correct and state what the hell is that nonsense its support your imagination and that's about it . PS they where ME so ya had to listen they had more letter after there names unlike me .

As for hydronics how about improper p/s piping without proper distances before and after tees ,oversized and undersized common piping and micro zoning . mis sizing and mis piping of injection loops Over all shoddy workmanship and up selling of unnecessary crap . Lack of any return temp protection on older systems where they should be installed if the system merits it . Lack of proper piping of mixing valves for radiant zones .

The list never ends being everyone is always under the gun and wants the best price so you cut a couple of corners here and there as you compromise your integrity and the quality of the work before long your cutting 2 pipes and doing the 2 coupling mombo and your out of thereby 2 o clock w a check in hand and deposited in the bank before the drive in or sun set totally awesome . This is what alot of us see when we go to a service call or for a nagging issue. As told by one of the great oil gentlemen if ya got flame then you got heat and the rest of your issues should be relegated to whom ever installed that mess of yeah god bless .

How about no condensate neutralizer at all and running the condensate into a hole ya drilled in the slab ,no combustion testing ,no water testing or treatment to fill water as per manufactures specs and when scheduled yearly maintenance is being performed just wrap a wrench on the boiler jacket for a 1/2 hour is usually the correct action .

Peace and good luck clammy

In this day and age we may not get peace every day but i know we all need luck constantly

Intplm.

Manufacturers throwing product out to the public without the proper in house testing, and then using the contractors to clean up there mess.