Need a bit of help/advice...
So my in-laws live next door to real POS neighbors who are managing to run a high efficiency furnace off of a propane tank in their house, a furnace that is setup for NG, in a neighborhood that has NG service with lots WAY too small for an outside residential propane tank. This is in the city of Cleveland fyi. The exhaust is pointing right at the in-laws driveway and house and is smelling really bad just walking down the driveway. Smells of unburnt propane. The in laws already called the gas co, they came out said yup its propane alright and confirmed it is producing a lot of CO. The neighbors stepped outside and told the gas co to buzz off and wouldn't let them in. Gas service has already been shut off, probably from lack of payment so…
I suggested to the in-laws that they need to call the fire dept. but I get the feeling they don't want to and don't truly understand the risks of these idiots next door with ******* propane tanks in the basement with a furnace setup for NG trying to run off of it.
Anyone on the forum here from the Cleveland, Ohio area who could advise the best course of action?
Keep in mind this is the city of Cleveland, where unless someone is dead or dying, they normally doesn't even respond to call coming into the dispatch, at least not in a timely fashion.
Feel free to message me directly if you want to talk offline. Although I'm currently at work on my lunch so I might not respond right away.
On a side note, how could this even be economical?! :S I'm truly flabbergasted by this. A 20lb propane tank has about 400K btu's of energy. My boiler would burn through that in less than a day! At almost 20$ a fill up too!
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cheaper to buy propane than to pay 3 years of unpaid ng bills and the service reconnect fees and deposits. try the code enforcement of the city building department. they are too busy to deal with someone's unpermitted fence but will probably be interested in someone trying to blow yup a house with propane.
This house blew up in Ann Arbor about a year ago because of a similar situation:
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This is a health department issue, perhaps social services or fire department issue. The fact that it is illegal to store LP gas containers indoor is a code violation and safety hazard for the resident of the home, It is also a danger to the properties next to that home if the LP Gas happens to build up indoors and explodes. People may end up in the hospital.
If the exhaust is ending up on your in-laws property, what is the chance that they put a PVC elbow on the end of the pipe to direct the exhaust away from their driveway. Perhaps a large piece of plywood on the in-laws property to direct the exhaust away from the driveway. Even paint a notice on it that says Exhaust Diverter on the plywood.
Place news stories about LP Gas explosions from the news paper and internet.
This one happened near me LP gas explosion Villas NJ
Here is another one from northern NJ
Just google Propane Explosion and see what comes up. print out a different story and place it in the mail box each day when they are not home. Or mail it if they don't want to be seen at the mailbox. Get creative and find local funeral home advertisements and mail it to them. Put some of the stories in birthday card envelopes. mail actual birthday cards with Hope you make it to your next one? with the explosion stories. Send an anonymous message to the fire department. and code official offices and the state fire marshal with the address of the possible violation. "I was walking past XYZ Main street and smelled a terrible fuel odor. I'm afraid the house may burn down if they are improperly storing fuel in the basement or something".
Ask other neighbors if they are also concerned.
Also make sure your in-laws homeowner's insurance coverage is up to date.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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State fire marshal…
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you might want to get a lawyer to send some sort of registered letter informing them that they are liable for damage to your property or person.
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I live in the suburbs, so it isn't a risk to my house. So no legal standing for me. I'm more concerned about it exploding or the CO getting sucked into the in-laws house while watching my kids.
And even if i dod try to sue them, can't squeeze blood from rock. Probably uncollectible.
And as another example of what kind of neighbors they are, the in-laws have suspicions they poisoned their dog a few years back. They have been caught multiple times throwing food over the fence.
Speaking of dogs, they had aggressive pitbulls at one time that I believe they were forced to get rid off.
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oh, your inlaws wouldn't be able to collect from them but possibly from their or their landlord's insurance. i am not a lawyer but they should talk to one. there is potentially some loss of your claim if your inlaws know about it and don't formally document it.
if it is rental property which you can find by looking at the county or city property records, they should report it to the landlord in writing in a way that is traceable.
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It isn't a rental.
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As someone said, State Fire Marshal.
There are several federal programs that will pay for their back gas and heat for the winter.No gas company can turn off heat in the winter if they are on any kind of government dole. Something's going on there. Just stupid people doing stupid things.
Can't be that great a neighborhood. Consider helping your folks find a better place to live. This is just be one problem after another. They deserve better in their older years.
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City of Cleveland Fire Chief 216-664-6800
City of Cleveland Public Safety Department 216-664-2200
This is the only way to solve this and protect themselves as the gas utility did not report them obviously for a code violation.
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I understand their hesitation at reporting the neighbors but this is a very serious issue and should something happen it will put your in-laws health and property at risk, not to mention any other neighbors that are near this building. they have to report it to protect themselves and their community imo.
this used to be a house near me that exploded. the explosion was heard and written down in an incident log at the sheriffs department office that was about a 20 min drive from here
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fire department! The will then get building officials and if needed law enforcement involved.
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I heard a house that blew up that was about 9 miles away at my house. I thought it was a much closer primary fuse then I saw the news story the next day.
The one I posted was in a nice neighborhood. It wasn't clear what was going on but there was speculation that they were fighting with the utility.
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