Oil tank safety valve

LRCCBJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1832928#Comment_1832928

The current Granby tanks are mostly 12. You can purchase an upright 10 but you pay almost 2X for it.

I can't imagine a 16 (only .060") lasting 50 years!!

yellowdog

@LRCCBJ Of course, filling a known leaking tank is absolutely something that should not be done. What I am referring to is the situation you described where the homeowner sees a small drip and just puts a pan under it so it can be dealt with later. He doesn't think its a big deal so he never contacts the oil delivery company to tell them not to deliver. Now on his next scheduled automatic delivery, splash, flooded basement.

You are correct about the public not being able to monitor their own tank. I deal with this every day since Vermont updated their inspection policy in August. We have somewhere around 10,000 or so oil customers. It can lead to quite animated conversations with customers when you fail their tank. We have lost more than one fuel account because they will just find another company (usually the one man show with a single truck) who will pass their tank and make deliveries. We are ok with losing those customers.

EdTheHeaterMan

@EBEBRATT-Ed We used Highland Tanks in the Phila. and South Jersey area, and had them deliver 12 at a time back in the day. Inside the Philadelphia city limits, you were not allowed to use outside above ground tanks so we used 14 Gauge Tanks as the basement tank and saved a few $$$. Now it seems that RE Michel and Sid's stock Granby with the 4 different style:

1. Steel with primer
2. Steel with 20 year warranty coating
3. Steel with double bottom… And
4. Steel with double bottom and 25 year warranty coating.

No 14 gauge tanks anywhere to be found.

Then there is the plastic tank in the metal enclosure, that has the $1,000,000.00 cleanup warrant that no one has ever cashed in on. (Are the tanks that good or is the warranty fine print too restrictive)

There were a few years that the oil tanks had to have a 3" tapping if you were going to install it outside above ground, and install this gaud awful expensive commercial 3" vent to pass a code inspection. Then the same size fill and vent rule was adopted as acceptable. 

Then the Basement Approved Tank tag was interpreted to mean that you could not use the tank outside above ground because some idiots with an inspector's license said that you could only use a basement tank in a basement. Took two years to explain that all tanks are approved for outside use. Only special tanks were approved for basement use and were properly certified with that tag.  It was not designed to exclude outside use.  What some people with the power to make your life miserable will do to make the manufacturers of things spend more money to satisfy the inspector’s ego.   

LRCCBJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1832943#Comment_1832943

This is a sad commentary from both sides. The general public is not capable of understanding the situation that befalls them and, when confronted with it, they choose to, again, ignore the facts and find a "solution" that does not require them to address the inevitable.

The "one man show" works well for everyone (except the environment) because, once the tank fails, you can't recover anything from the "one man show" and you certainly cannot recover anything from the renter. If it actually is a homeowner, I refer back to my previous statement……………which I use almost every day today……………"YOU CAN"T FIX STUPID". Credit to Steamhead.

I hate to make a general comment about society in general, but I find the lack of basic intelligence and understanding of relatively simple concepts seems pervasive to me today. Hence the incessant and ongoing implementation of regulations to prevent any possible catastrophe.

LRCCBJ

@EdTheHeaterMan

Only special tanks were approved for basement use and were properly certified with that tag. 

Can you explain why a "special tank" would be approved for a basement, which generally is a much more benign environment than outdoors. I would make the conclusion that a "special tank" would be required OUTDOORS.

EdTheHeaterMan

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1832981#Comment_1832981

All of those tanks that had the metal tag welded on them that read "Approved for Basement Use".  They measure about 22" wide and 44" tall about 60" long. They have a rounded top and rounded bottom with a flat section in the middle.   The manufacturer of these special tanks call them “Obround” which is a combination of the words oblong and round that refer to different geometric figures. The best way to describe these special tanks is to show you a picture.   

All of those tanks that had the metal tag welded on them that read "Approved for Basement Use".  They measure about 22" wide and 44" tall about 60" long. They have a rounded top and rounded bottom with a flat section in the middle.   The manufacturer of these special tanks call them “Obround” which is a combination of the words oblong and round that refer to different geometric figures. The best way to describe these special tanks is to show you a picture.   

Now don’t get me wrong here, these tanks were being made for over 100 years and were being installed outside above ground since they were first manufactured.  The special design made them fit in many narrow basement stairways and were therefore called basement tanks.  They needed to be certified for such use and the metal tag was designed to show that approval.  It was not designed to exclude them from outdoor above ground use.   So what is so special about them?   Absolutely nothing.  It was the NJ fire and plumbing and building inspectors that decided that the word basement on that tag made them inappropriate for outside above ground use.    

Now don’t get me wrong here, these tanks were being made for over 100 years and were being installed outside above ground since they were first manufactured.  The special design made them fit in many narrow basement stairways and were therefore called basement tanks.  They needed to be certified for such use at some point, and the metal tag was designed to show that approval.  It was not designed to exclude them from outdoor above ground use.   So what is so special about them?   Absolutely nothing.  It was the NJ fire and plumbing and building inspectors that decided that the word basement on that tag made them inappropriate for outside above ground use.    

LRCCBJ

They needed to be certified for such use

Why would that ever be necessary? Makes no sense.

EdTheHeaterMan

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1832993#Comment_1832993

You need to remember that insurance companies have these meetings that review what claims they paid out over the past year(s). What caused the property damage? What caused that injury? Why did that person die? Then they come up with recommendations on how to prevent those losses. Those recommendations are sent to the folks that make the code books that the inspectors need to enforce.

I guess at some point someone put oil in a 55 gallon drum in their basement and somehow it failed or the dog tipped it over. Then there was a fire that the insurance company needed to pay out on. Then they had a meeting, and recommended that you should not use 55 gallon drums in basements to store heating fuel. Then a code was written that stated "only approved tanks can be installed in basements" and since the tank manufacturers did not have any "Approved for basement use" tanks in stock, the tank manufacturers had this tag made up that could be welded to the side of the special Approver for basement use" oil tanks they already had in stock.  

Of course at some point the oil delivery guy overfilled the tank and another code was written about the proper venting, and vent alarms, and all those other oil tank regulations we all follow today. 

But then who really needs relief valves on boilers anyway.

Why would that ever be necessary? Makes no sense.

LRCCBJ

LOL………yes………..same as always!

Legislate against any potential stupid.

Dave119

This is has been a very educational thread. I have an update. One of my dad's friends, it turns out his brother is a plumber and knew my dad. I guess they were in some of the same Veterans groups over the years. He popped over to take a look at the tank. He said the tank looks in good shape to him, but my dad should have updated the valve years back. He is going to take care of that for me and service the boiler and make sure everything is good going forward. He said the tank is about 40 years old, so he reccomends monitoring it and letting him know of any signs of an issue, or alternatively, he will put a new one in at some point this year before a renter comes in if I go in that direction. He said the boiler looks good, and thinks that it will probably go for a quite a while, but said you never know since it is older, but looks well maintained. He seemed to think he could get the tank out of the closet without taking down the wall, which would be a great plus.

My wife and I always loved my dads house. It is a 3 bedroom ranch style home about 1200 sf with a 2 car garage. It was perfect for what he needed in the latter part of his life. Our kids are teenagers now, so when (if) they ever move out, we might move to my dads house for the same reasons he bought it. Easy to maintain, small but nice yard and not expensive to heat. So, we plan to rent it out for a few years and maybe move in. It is in the town next door to where we live. So, we will see how it goes.

Thanks for the information. This is a great thread for people who never dealt with oil heat and come across these kinds of scenarios.

LRCCBJ

The brother is a wise man.

Listen to him.

EdTheHeaterMan

I forgot what we were talking about… what kind of tank are you thinking of replacing. Was is a fish tank?

Intplm.

MMM !!