V8043E stuck closed - additional question

dbsoccer

It being the first few cool days of the approaching fall, my wife was cold and decided to turn a couple of main/first level heating zones on to take the chill off. One zone came on fine but the other did not. After verifying the thermostat for that zone was making the needed electrical connection I tried to manually open the zone valve for zone with the issue. The valve appears to be locked such that I cannot move the manual level.

After searching for this same topic on this forum I've learned that the ball inside the valve is the issue and that the entire top assembly can be replaced without breaking any solder joints. This is good news as the location of this valve is less than ideal for doing any de-soldering/re-soldering.

The mechanism is stuck hard. Is this because the rubber from the ball just gets stuck to the seat? Or does the shaft get locked? If I remove the four fasteners holding the valve head assembly to the valve body things will come apart , with some encouragement, along with water, etc. But will the seat need to be addressed or cleaned up in anyway? I'm referencing back to my experiences with car engines and valve seats, etc.

This valve sits between a couple of floor joist and provides hot water to baseboard in the room above. The room below is finished as well (carpeting on the floor and furniture) so things are tight. I have an access hole but I can't look directly onto the top of the valve without the aid of a mirror and a light. I'm just wanting to be prepared for what the future holds. If it's just shaft that's locked up then the valve seat is probably ok as is.

Thanks for any wisdom you can share.

hot_rod

It could be one or both of those problems. The seat doesn't go bad very often, it is not removable, at least on this vintage. Clean it with some emery cloth.

The stem is most likely. Possibly the ball is stuck.

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dbsoccer

Thanks Rod. I found a used spare valve in my pile of parts and was able to pull it apart. Simple and because of the O-ring seal getting the parts separated shouldn't be much of an issue. My biggest concern is managing the water so I don't get ripped by my wife. 😀

HomerJSmith

I just went on a service call today for that very reason, a ZV , same one, that was stuck open and two zones were heating when only one was calling for heat. I removed the power head and turned the ball stem and it was stuck. I took some silicone spray and sprayed the stem while rotating it back and forth with pliers until it would move freely using my fingers. However, there is a gear box under the motor and it has a fiber gear in it and it was stripped, the other gears are metal. So the motor would spin when power was applied but the small brass gear on the bottom of the motor that engages the lever would not spin. I freed up the ball lever and put a new motor on the power head. I will call the customer and see if everything is OK. Use silicone spray that is safe for rubber.

EdTheHeaterMan

@HomerJSmith's process means you will not get wet. If you need to remove the ball valve from the housing, you will get wet, so you want to relieve the boiler pressure to zero PSI. and look for any isolation valves. you need to close both the inlet and the outlet on order to isolate that valve. Otherwise you will need to drain the system to a point below the valve, do the work, then refill the system.

dbsoccer

I can't express how much I appreciate this forum. The members are great! HJS, thanks for the tip on an intermediate step prior to getting wet. I can pop the power head off without much difficulty and see if I can free it up. I have a couple of new power heads at the ready just for these type of issues.

And I hear you ETHM, draining the system below the valve will mean draining the entire system. But I can isolate the piping of the zone for this valve and then have something a bit less than 50 gallons of water to deal with (just kidding!!😁). Hopefully it doesn't come to this and I can free up the stem with some silicone spray.

Thank you gentlemen!

LRCCBJ

I just finished the exact same job. The power head was jammed completely and I decided to simply change it. These valves are all very close to the ceiling and access is limited. Visibility to the far side of the valve is non-existent.

My suggestion after quite a bit of struggle is to obtain and utilize a T-10 bit, approx. 1.5" length. You might be able to use a small handle if you have sufficient height, but most likely will need a small wrench to break the two screws loose. Installation is the reverse of removal. The screws remain with the power head and the T-10 bit with a narrow shaft is necessary to keep the tip of the T-10 perfectly vertical to engage the screws. The torque provided with your fingers is sufficient to retain the head.

In these confined conditions, just forget about using the flat blade screwdriver.

As an aside, changing the motor on another valve was a two hour job as the single screw was on the far side (of course) and not visible. Getting the screw to start……….without losing it………..was an exercise in futility. It also utilizes the T-10 and gluing the screw to the T-10 was the final solution.

dbsoccer

I just finished. Success! (I hadn't yet seen LRCCBJ's input before I started.)

As it turns out the valve was not frozen but the motor was locked. I used small combination wrench and was able to easily rotate the valve shaft back and forth. This was a major relief! I wired up the new power head, tested to see if everything worked as intended and then mounted the power head on the valve. It's nice to have a headlamp and a mirror.

LRCCBJ, you suggest using a T-10 driver. Because of the close quarters I ended up using stubby flat screw driver. It was not ideal but, without getting too deep into my list of favorite swear words, I was able to get things tightened up. I need to go out into the garage and see about a T-10. I did come away thinking that there must be something better than what I used but I didn't think the screws recess was a Torx. But thanks for the tip. I do know I want to use something better than what I used if/when I need to repeat this in the future. For valves out in the open, where you can get down from the top, the job would be a piece of cake. But tucked up between floor joist that are fully insulated does not result in the most fun I hope I have today.

Thanks again for your help.

LRCCBJ

I always thought it was a Phillips. Incorrect. Look carefully with a magnifying glass (if you're old :)). It is definitely a T-10.

The usual Torx bits set into a 1/4" driver will not work. The driver is too fat and will hit the motor.

This is exactly what you need:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZS6K63D?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

Of course, in the confined space, you cannot use a handle on them. Your fingers are the only available option.. If they cannot be removed with your fingers, you can get a standard wrench on the flats to break the bond if they have been in use for 15 years.

dbsoccer

Yes T-10 it is and I am old. Thanks for the tip on the tips (damn, I'm funny 😊).