Humming Noise from Gas-Fired Hot Water Boiler Zone
My home has an older boiler, Teledyne Laars JVS-125C (30 psi max, 103k ctu/h heating capacity). I had it serviced/fired up last month and didn't notice that the basement zone circulator makes a continuous 3 second rising humming/vibration noise that I can hear throughout the house (3 zones, 3 levels, 3 circulators). I believe it's the basement zone because the sound only occurs when I turn the basement thermostat up to activate the zone.
I was going to start by trying to bleed the air out of the basement zone, but the hook up is baseboard (1st and 2nd level are cast iron radiators) and I can't seem to find a bleeder valve near the baseboard pipes or a drain above the circulator shut-off valves. The basement zone pipes are a bit smaller than the other 2 zones, but the circulators are the same (except the basement ironically has the newer model taco 007-f4, whereas the others have the taco 007-f3).
Here is a video of the noise:
And here's the whole set up:
Should I even bother trying to bleed the air out of the basement zone? I could also try adding one of those auto-bleed valves if necessary?
Comments
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The reason most heaters Hummmm is because they forgot the words.
Try placing the sheet music on the ground in front of the boiler and see if that stop the humming
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Run the basement zone for a while , see if clears up . It could be just summer grit …
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If the basement zone circulator is the one closest to the chimney, then there's no purge valve like the other two zones have.
Are there bleeders on the basement emitters?
NO air eliminators. You have an "air control system".
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There are no bleeders on the basement emitters unfortunately. Does anyone know how to bleed the air out of this system? Can I bleed it easily from the other zones if the air eventually comes out of the basement zone into the other zones?
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Your taco circulator sound like mine did before they failed.
One question, is the water feeder valve turned off? I hope so. Your steel compression tank is the work horse for your needed air management. The steel compression tank has a 1/3 air to 2/3 water ratio in the saddle tank hung in the ceiling to maintain the point of no pressure change to allow the circulators to work correctly.
If all you are getting is water when you are bleeding the system there is no air in it.
An easy way to rid the basement of air if you think the basement loop has air in it just turn the thermostat all the way up for a couple of hours and any trapped air will makes way to the steel compression tank.
Please take more pictures of the piping cominmg from the boiler and any valves going in to and under the steel compression tank and post them here.
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I had the basement zone turned up to 75, running for a day or two, still makes the same cavitation-like noise. If there's no way to bleed the basement zone then maybe I'll just need to replace the circulator. On the front of the boiler is the pressure relief valve. The compression tank feels light and hollow.
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Have you checked to see if the globe valve feeding water to the steel compression tank is open?? It has to be open at all times.
Have you examined the papers and other items in the plastic bag hanging on the pipe?
Would you mind detailing what is in the bag please as it is probably relevant to the heating system.
========================================================================================If you have the patience to do the following you can determine how much water you have in your steel tank.
First, purchase a four foot length of 3/4" clear plastic tubing and one 3/4" female garden hose repair connector and one male 3/4" garden hose repair connector and a hose bib cap.
Second, attach the male and female hose repair connectors to the clear piece of tubing and secure them with hose clamps if needed
Third, shut the globe valve off on the copper line feeding the steel compression tank.
Fourth, put the hose bib cap on the male end of the hose only hand tight.
Fifth, attach the hose to the drain valve under the tank after you tie the other end straight up or nearly straight up somewhere next to the tank.
Sixth open the drain valve of the tank.
Seventh, slowly loosen the hose bib cap on the male end of the hose.
The water in the steel compression tank will gradually reach equilibrium in the clear hose indicating the water level in the steel compression tank.
A steel compression tank can sound hollow because of the air covering the water in the tank.
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I wonder why you need to know this? Is the relief valve leaking? is the boiler pressure getting too high? That information is needed to solve other problems, not for noisy circulators that forgot the words to the song so they just hum along.
Those pumps are usually very quiet, so hearing the noise in the video indicates there is air in that loop, or there is sediment that is causing the rotor and impeller to rotate a little off balance. When it is time to change the pump @bsewards, you might want to add the purge valve on that loop, to make air removal easier.
Also the location of the connection from the boiler to the compression type expansion tank is perfect for sending air from the system to the compression tank. I would not be surprised if that tank had more air than the top 1/3. And that would not be a problem at all. More room for expansion. You can never have to big of an expansion tank.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I asked because the system does not appear to have an airtrol valve in the base of the tank. The wiring for the boiler is not up to code and I do not see a low water cut off switch or a low water cut off switch I am familiar with anyway.
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Not every boiler installer uses an AirTrol fitting on the expansion tank. and there was a time that installers thought (incorrectly) that as long as you didn't close the manual feed valve to the boiler, the auto feed valve Trumped the need for a LWCO. (No politicking here). So you are probably correct that there is no LWCO. And I agree with you that the two switches hanging above the boiler by the wires are a code violation. And I might also point out that Relief valve is now incorrectly mounted on the horizontal. It should have an elbow to mount it on the vertical. And the low voltage wiring is a little messy.
But none of that is going to address the Humming problem. I was focusing on the noise problem and since they can't purge air from that loop, and we don't know if there is some foreign material in that pump, and they can't find the proper sheet music, perhaps a replacement circulator pump is the only answer.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Do you think that the boiler is actually kettling Ed?
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When it is time to change the pump @bsewards, you might want to add the purge valve on that loop, to make air removal easier.
I can replace the basement zone circ pump without having to drain the entire boiler, but would I have to drain the entire boiler to add the purge valve since it would have to be installed above the shut-off valve?
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