manifold, thermostat questions

CDHE

Here’s my design for AWHP/in-floor heat on the 1,100sf structure I am building. First time doing this sort of thing, so pointing out any potential problems would be greatly appreciated. In floor and staple-up have been run. Heat pump is set and plumbed into the building.

1-Was thinking of using Caleffi for manifolds and zone valves. Can someone advise me on how to plumb the two circuits in my zone #3? They are only 3ft different in length. Safe to simply Tee them together before the manifold? Or use a separate two zone manifold?

2-Not sure about zone controller. Have no way to hard wire (because of log walls) thermostats to my three zones. Is there a good wireless option?

3-Does the head in the AWHP’s internal pump play any part in calculating head for the in-floor circulation pump? Or do the calculations for that pump only take into account piping after the buffer tank?

Thanks!

hot_rod

The connection at M-1 for circuit 3, use 3/4" pex for that to run to the remote manifold. So a 680505A for those two S&R connection on Caleffi manifolds.

Loops within 10% of one another in length do not require balance valves. Use a couple 3/4 X 1/2 with pex adapters sweat in tees to build that two port manifold.

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Too late for a 3 pipe buffer?, it allows the HP and buffer tank to operate more efficiently.

The key is to get a buffer tank with at least 1-1/2" connections. So that top connection would be an 1-1/2" X 1 X 1 tee, for example

Or 2X1X1 if the tank has 2" connections. That small section is a hydraulic separation function.

I think HBX out of Canada has a wireless zoning system.

The head the HP sees is just itself and the short amount of piping to the tank.

The distribution cicculator could be an ECM, like a Grundfos Alpha 15-58 for example.

CDHE

Thanks for this. Already purchased the buffer from Chiltrix. If it makes a big difference, might it be worth selling to get a three pipe….?

hot_rod

If you have this tank? or any 4 port tank, just cap off any po

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rt you don't use.

Too bad the ports on theses tanks aren't 1-1/2 or 2". 1-1/4 is a bit small for 15 or more GPM

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CDHE

Ok. Ready to purchase the manifold and have a few more questions:

Thinking I will buy the 66851. Or does the Alpha pump function in place of the balancing feature of that manifold?

Will be mounting it upside down. Can I purchase directly from Caleffi, or do dealers (like Supply House) order the units in upside down configuration?

Do I need to use the hermetically sealed actuators for my application?

I have three zones. Rather than building the two port manifold for M-2 (as described above), is there any reason to use a four port Caleffi and connect those two loops with a pair of actuators wired together?

Thanks!

hot_rod

If you are zoning, I would go with the Alpha

The circ is more efficient and it will vary flow as zones open and close

The only balance would be different loop lengths on a zone.

Yes you can wire two actuators together

Adding the suffix IN gets you an inverted model

The wholesaler you buy from may have a different part number, however. Here is the Caleffi numbers

If it is heating only, go with TwisTop actuators. Sealed are more for chilled water where condensation is possible

Thanks for shopping Caleffi

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CDHE

Will the inverted unit have it's inlet and outlet ports on the right side? That would be a strong preference if possible.

CDHE

Here's an updated schematic (hopefully) based on feedback received here. Manifolds arrived. They are really quite impressive hunks of brass. Do I have the fill/purge valve located in the best spot? Any other improvements that I might make? Thanks again

hot_rod

Is that a blank tank, no coils inside? I would put the fill valve connection at the expansion tank, the PONPC. Or is that what DWF is? Both the hydronic and HP loops will fill from that one spot.

A Webstone purge valve downstream of the backup heater. Water fills, goes thru the HP and backup heater and purge air out.

A second purge valve on the return from the hydronic loops, maybe right above the tank.

Circulators generally have checks inside, so no need for that additional check.

No need for the air vent on the left side of the tank?

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CDHE

Yes. Blank tank.

I was sloppy in not removing air vent from my drawing when laying the tank over.

It's a DMF150. Water here is terrible. Plan to purchase a 55gal drum of premix

Check valve eliminated.

Did I get the fill/purge right?

I flipped the backup heater and 3 way for future heat per Chiltrix.

Thanks!

hot_rod

That will work.

A vertical tank is preferred for buffer tanks, they stratify and have more useful exergy. But that will still buffer the HP.

Here Is my opinion of the best way to buffer a HP.

This is a 3 pipe buffer. It's advantage is the coldest possible return (in heating mode) goes across the bottom of the tank directly to the HP, which in turn assures the highest efficiency for the HP.

It is also "direct to load" the HP output can go directly to the load without interacting with the tank. For example if the HP is flowing 10 gpm, and the load is taking 10 gpm, there really is no need to use the buffer, or even flow into it.

The buffer will charge under several conditions, the "load' decreases say to 5 gpm. Then 5 gpm enters the tank.

When the load stops calling, all10 gpm heats the tank and the HP shuts down.

On the next heat call, flow is directly from the tank until its temperature drops and the HP and its pump comes back on line. So it covers many bases. A buffer, hydraulic separator, and maybe a variable use vessel based on flowrates at any point in time. I suppose a vertical tank could be used like this also, if it have tappings in the correct location. But you will not stack a thermocline like a vertical tank.

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CDHE

Almost there; just a couple of questions before I press everything. Thanks for the thermocline info. I ended up headering off a joist so that the tank could be mounted vertically.

-Could you please confirm that I don't need to add a separate check valve between pump and buffer tank?

Will I need the 3-wire Caleffi actuators for microswitch?

Thanks again….