Case of the no heat brew kettle, this Friday's case

RayWohlfarth

In this case, the brewmaster said he was unable to get a rolling boil in the brewery brew kettle. The temperature seemed to stop around 209 degrees F. The brewer said the pipes banged and he also heard water sloshing like in a washing machine. I have a couple of pics this week. I will publish the video on Friday at 6am EST

retiredguy

Same steam system as the problem from last week? Possible problems would be that the steam pressure is too low, the steam supply piping is not large enough, the boiler's water line is too high causing water carryover, and if the problem area is the picture that is below I would have to ask, " are the 3 steam lines pictured all going to the same device or separate devices", in which case all 3 supplies should have their own steam trap. And again, the need for the correct sizes of piping and steam traps and the location of those traps and the correct handling. of the condensate. One last item, is there a condensate pump there to lift the condensate up to that mezzanine where the boiler and boiler's condensate tank is located? This condensate pump would be a necessity on a cold start up, otherwise the steam jacket/coils would load up with water until the steam pressure would increase enough to lift the condensate to the boiler system above all the while producing a lot of noise.

mattmia2

Doesn't the check valve have to be after the trap to keep the water that the steam should be lifting from just falling back into the trap when the trap opens again?(but i don't know commercial steam at all)

EBEBRATT-Ed

So it's water logged.

If no condensate pump at the kettles you need:

check valves on trap outlets

high enough steam pressure to lift condensate.

If you do have a condensate pump maybe it's not working and the overflow is piped to where it is not obvious.

I am guessing there is no condensate pump at the kettles only the boiler feed tank up in the boiler room.

If it is lifting condensate each kettle should have an individual condensate line with a check valve at the bottom. The condensate should rise up higher than the returns and then gravity takes it back to the boiler feed tank. They should not be manifolded below the boiler.

ttekushan_3

I’m reluctant to take a stab at this since I’m a low pressure steam guy and don’t see this arrangement much. But it’s an interesting problem so why not? Assuming the strainer is clear and the trap is okay and that this has worked before (haha, those are a lot of assumptions) I can only picture that this arrangement could sort of work only if the vessel is completely filled with all the supply valves open. And at that I wonder how long the trap could last without a check valve I can see steam sailing through the top jacket air binding the lower ones and hammering through any cold condensate they manage to produce. Picture a jacket with steam on both sides squeezing an air pocket. I agree with EBEBRATT-Ed and retiredguy that separate traps and check valves for each jacket are necessary.

mattmia2

Or a bad check valve so it can't keep the condensate raised by the steam. I guess the did it ever work question is important here.

RayWohlfarth

Well it's a combination of several things I believe.

Each steam jacket needs its own trap. When they share a trap, there is steam pressure on each side so condensate stays in the vessel.

The manual shutoff valves in the vertical pipe allow condensate to stack in the riser pipe. When the valves are opened, all the condensate goes down into the vessels causing banging and premature condensing of the steam which starts a ripple effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4eLMs6cyfA

EBEBRATT-Ed

When the kettles are not used and they are manually shut down by closing a valve a trap should be installed on the inlet to the SO valve.

If all the kettles are left on and the boiler is shut down at the end of the day the rising steam pressure will empty the kettle the next morning on start up.

RayWohlfarth

@EBEBRATT-Ed Yes sir they do