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First generation sump pump..I think...

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Mad Dog_2
Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,049
edited April 26 in THE MAIN WALL

This is in that 1846 Long Island Farmhouse...name on it is "Pernathy" ? Mad Dog

sump_pump.jpg

Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.

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  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,706
    edited April 26
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    It is just a bang that says "unsafe" if you hover over it. I want to see since I have seen some pedestal pump that look to be from around the dawn of the availability of electric motors.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,868
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    You mean "Penberthy"? They still make them:

    https://www.emerson.com/en-us/catalog/penberthy-p001089

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    ChrisJMad Dog_2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,735
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    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/196987/first-generation-sump-pump-i-think

    Yes, I think they invented the sump pump. If they didn't, they were certainly one of the first in the game.

    PENBERTHY

    But I don't think they became a thing until the mid 1900s, maybe early 1900s but it doesn't seem like it.

    The earliest stuff I've seen on a remotely modern looking sump pump is 1950s.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Mad Dog_2
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,868
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    Right, @Mad Dog_2 . That looks like a jet pump. It is descended from Penberthy injectors, which were used to feed water to steam locomotive and other high-pressure boilers when they were under enough pressure that a regular pump or water service would not work. Go to any American railroad museum where they have steam locomotives and you'll probably see one.

    In this application you'd need something under pressure to operate the jet. This could be steam or water. I bet compressed air would probably work too.

    I wonder if we could use or modify a Penberthy jet to add vacuum back to a Paul or similar system?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    ChrisJ
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,706
    edited April 26
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    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1800229#Comment_1800229

    https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/auto-shop-tools/air-conditioning/vacuum-pumps/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,868
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    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1800230#Comment_1800230

    Interesting, but could we really expect something from Harbor Freight to stand up to the demands of a heating system?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,735
    edited April 26
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    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1800235#Comment_1800235

    I wouldn't use that vacuum pump on anything refrigeration related.

    It looks like they claim it'll do 28.3" of mercury, or 40,000 microns. We're supposed to pull below 500 microns in refrigeration, I usually aim for 100-200.

    I have a compressed air vacuum generator made by Gast I use for vacuum tables at the shop that works well but it's loud and uses a lot of air. I think 12 CFM the entire time it's in use. I'm sure it would hold up, but doubt it's remotely practical for such an application like a steam system. Still not remotely good for refrigeration work either.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,706
    edited April 26
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    I dint' say it was a good idea, but you could make a vacuum with compressed air. When I looked at those before i knew much of anything about refrigeration about 15 years ago the consensus seemed to be they could pull enough of a vacuum to remove the air but not the moisture.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,868
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    How much vacuum would one need? @Pumpguy , what are your thoughts?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,706
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    It is enough vacuum, it is more the amount of compressed air you need that is the concern.

  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,049
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    Penberthy? Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,049
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    It almost looks like a venturi water pump...It's pre-1910 I'd think from the looks of it..All Galvanized. Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.

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