Baseboard Heaters Not Working

arihad

Hello all,
I have baseboard heaters in a room above my garage. They are connected to a water heater in my garage. They stopped working and a plumber said the Taco circulator pump was bad and replaced it. It is not working with the new pump though. The old pump had an extra wire connected to it, and there wasn’t a spot to connect it to the new pump, so they left it hanging out of the ceiling and suggested we call an electrician. 

I suspect that the extra wire from the ceiling connects to the thermostat. When I adjust the thermostat, nothing happens. I can hear the pump humming, but the pipes above and below it are cold, even though the pipes directly above the water heater are hot and the water heater appears to be functioning correctly. 

My best guess is that they installed the wrong kind of pump. Before I call them, I’d like to get the thoughts of people who know more than me:
1. Any ideas what this extra wire is? Is it the thermostat wire? Is there a way to connect the wire to any pump or do I need a specific pump to attach to a thermostat?
2. Who do I call to make repairs? We called an HVAC company who told us to call a plumber and the plumber tried to fix it said if it doesn’t work then to call an an HVAC professional. 

Any thoughts for me? 

Thanks! 

arihad

arihad

This is what the new pump looks like and this is the wire that was connected to the old pump but the plumber said there wasn’t a spot for it in the new pump. 

hot_rod

It may have had this model pump which has the thermostat connections. I think you may have an air bubble the is preventing flow. So it needs to be purged. You can add an external relay to use that pump.

EdTheHeaterMan

Your old pump may have looked like this

Your new pump looks like this

See the difference in the size of the BOX where the wires are connected. The new pump has no relay in that smaller box to connect the thermostat wires . That pump is running all the time which should over heat those rooms.

Since you have no heat, Your radiators have air in them. That air is not letting the pump move any heated water. You may burn the pump out if you continue to operate that pump without water circulating. Turn off that pump ASAP.

Then get the air out of the pipes. There should be an easy way to purge the air out. I need to see a picture of the pipes that connect the radiators to the water heater from far enough back to see the water heater and the connecting pipes from floor to ceiling. That way I can see the purge valves and give you instructions how to purge the air.

arihad

Thanks, Ed. This is hugely helpful. I’ll take some pictures tomorrow and post them here. Brave yourself though. All the piping is chaotic. I think the previous owners did a lot of it by themselves 😆 

arihad

hot_rod said:

It may have had this model pump which has the thermostat connections. I think you may have an air bubble the is preventing flow. So it needs to be purged. You can add an external relay to use that pump.

Thank you for this. I really appreciate it. Can you give me more details on the external relay? How do I install that and will it allow me to use the thermostat? 

EdTheHeaterMan

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Caleffi-ZSR101-1-Zone-Expandable-Switching-Relay-w-Priority
This one will work.

@hot_rod should agree

hot_rod

Can't go wrong with that control. Mount it on the wall just above the new pump.

It will involve some 120V AC wiring, if you are comfortable with that?

Is that pump just plugged into a receptacle now?

It would be nice if the pump wasn't touching the wall, you may get some noise transmitted throughout the building.

EdTheHeaterMan

Here is your wiring diagram!

STILL IMPORTANT!

Stop that pump from running ASAP before it overheats and burns out.

arihad

EdTheHeaterMan said:

Here is your wiring diagram!

STILL IMPORTANT!

Stop that pump from running ASAP before it overheats and burns out.

Thank you! And yes, it’s off. 😃 

EdTheHeaterMan

If you are going to call the plumber to get the air out of the system, you may as well tell him that he got the wrong pump an demand that the correct pump get put in, or you will not pay for the job at all. (if that is still an option). You need the Pump with the relay built in. Here is the part number. 007-ZF5-9

arihad

Just an update: they’re coming out to replace it with the correct pump, so that’s great news. But I wanted to post pictures of the set up since I had mentioned it was kind of crazy. The water heater is in a closet in a garage and up off the ground for some reason, and there are pipes all over. There’s very little room to work, and my state is freezing,  so it’s a miserable job. It really sucks that they’ll have to do it again. 

But thank you everyone for your help! I had to mention what you guys had told us for them to understand what was wrong and what they needed to do, but fingers crossed that it’s smooth sailing for the replacement! u h

bburd

Code requires combustion appliances in garages to be raised at least 18 inches off the floor. This is because if there is a gasoline leak, the explosive vapors pool near the floor. 

EdTheHeaterMan

When they get the correct pump installed, you want to know how to purge the air from the system yourself. Ask the installer to show you. Make notes and tag the necessary valves. Don't let them leave until the heat is flowing. Hols back part of the payment or use a credit card (Not a Debit Card) to pay the bill. That way you have leverage for warranty work at no charge under the warranty! Most credit card banks will allow you to charge back a vendor if the product or service is defective or never delivered.

EdTheHeaterMan

There are 2 water heaters there. Is one of them DHW for showers and potable water and the other for space heating? or are they two separate DHW water heaters for separate apartments?

arihad

EdTheHeaterMan said:

There are 2 water heaters there. Is one of them DHW for showers and potable water and the other for space heating? or are they two separate DHW water heaters for separate apartments?

Thanks for your tips on the replacement and luring the air. They’re coming on Monday, and I’ll make sure everything is going before they leave. 

One of the water heaters is for actual hot water and the other is for space heating  

arihad

Ok, more bad news on my end.  The plumbers got the new pump installed. It’s the 008-zf6-6. (Which is different than the one that was recommended to me. I hope it’s not the wrong pump again.)
But the plumbers said they don’t do any wiring due to liability. So it’s not attached to anything. 

Can someone help me know how to wire the pump to the power as well as to the thermostat? 

I’ll post pictures below

EBEBRATT-Ed

Connect your thermostat wires put the red thermostat wire on the R terminal on the terminal block and the white thermostat wire on the W terminal on the terminal block.

Your 120 volt power cord is an issue. You have a brown a blue and a green with a yellow stripe.

The green with the yellow stripe is your equipment ground. That wire attaches to the green ground screw. In the picture it is located behind the mounting tab with the hole in it that secures the cover to the pump.

Now you have a brown and a blue wire. One of those is your "hot" wire and the other is your "neutral" wire.

The hot goes on the "H" terminal and the neutral goes on the "N" terminal.


The problem is I don't know which is which. The hot wire is usually black and the neutral is usually white.

Electricity is color blind so the actual wire color does not matter form an electrical stand point but you need to find out which is which.

Do you have a test meter or a non contact voltage tester??

Do you have an old lamp or a drop light that you could cut the plug off and use as a test light?

Where does the other end of the pump power cord go to?

hot_rod

Brown is generally power, blue neutral. Euro cables are typically brown and blue, for some reason? Of course a lot of pumps are 230V over there.