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Two quotes for combi boilers for radiant and DHW

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Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,736
    You should feel spring tension when you raise the fast fill hoop, and hear water flowing.

    So that valve is stuck and or the shutoff valve is not allowing water to pass.

    There is a strainer under the large brass cap at the bottom of the fill valve. With the water valve off you could remove the strainer and check.

    You need to start taking things apart.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137
    hot_rod said:

    You should feel spring tension when you raise the fast fill hoop, and hear water flowing.

    So that valve is stuck and or the shutoff valve is not allowing water to pass.

    There is a strainer under the large brass cap at the bottom of the fill valve. With the water valve off you could remove the strainer and check.

    You need to start taking things apart.


    Thanks for the advice.

    Here's what the expert I know suggested:
    "You should try and open the valve with a wrench. Don't use a lot of force and go back and forth. To see if gets more movement each way."

    His theory is that the shutoff valve should turn a lot more than what I'm getting. I'm only seeing ~1/6 rotation or 60 degrees.

    But my fear is of course that if I use a wrench I'll break something and end up with high pressure water leaking everywhere. At that point I'd have to shut the water off for the whole house, which I'm not sure how to do.

    Thoughts on this suggestion? Too risky or good idea?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,736

    You should find and label the whole house water shutoff , for many reasons.
    I would not force any valves without knowing the main shutoff works.

    A boiler replacement should include replacing all the valves associated with the boiler
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ThinkpadUser7Larry Weingarten
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137
    Yeah, makes sense. All the quotes I'm getting include replacing all the pluming/equipment within that closet.
  • Fill valves often get stuck closed, and I mean often. 
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137

    Fill valves often get stuck closed, and I mean often. 

    What do you suggest trying to do?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,736
    Fill valves often get stuck closed, and I mean often. 
    What do you suggest trying to do?
    Are you able to start unthreading valves and fittings to add a new fill valves , or at least pressurize the system somehow?
    if not, hire one if the contractors you trust to come by and do a 35 psi pressure test.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137
    Ok, I did remind myself where the house water shutoff was just in case.

    And it turns out the shutoff valve needed more force to fully open. I tried again with my hand and was able to turn it counter clockwise without any limit. I then felt more tension when lifting the fill valve hoop, but I wasn't seeing the gauge change. But after about 5 minutes (and repeated lifting of the hoop, which seemed to help) I got the pressure up to a little over 18. I then lowered the hoop and closed the shutoff as much as I could. I'll monitor what happens over the next few days.
    hot_rod
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137
    edited January 2024
    I just looked at the gauge and it read a tiny bit under 18 now. Could that just be ambient temp differences? I'll keep monitoring over the next few days.
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137
    It's dropped to a little over 17 psi, so about a 1 psi drop over 24 hours.
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137
    To be clear the gas has been shut off to the boiler for a full week at this point. Is the drop from 18 to 17 psi a definitive indication that there's a leak somewhere? I don't see any evidence of leaks in the closet though not sure I'd notice a few drops over 24 hours.

    What is the sensible next step here?
  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 1,086
    That one psi drop could simply indicate a change in the average temperature of the water in the system. Water expands when heated and contracts when cooled.

    Bburd
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,736
    I would give it a thumbs up unless it drops to 5psi or less.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137
    bburd said:

    That one psi drop could simply indicate a change in the average temperature of the water in the system. Water expands when heated and contracts when cooled.

    Yeah, I tried to remove that variability by having heat off for a week and doing the two measurements at the same time of day (so roughly the same ambient temp)
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137
    hot_rod said:

    I would give it a thumbs up unless it drops to 5psi or less.

    Can you elaborate a bit? I thought any sort of indication of a leak was bad news.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,736
    I think hour fill valve is connected to a hot water line?
    If you filled the system with some hot water as the water cools, pressure will drop a few pounds.
    The indication of a leak  would be the pressure continues to drop

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137
    edited January 2024
    hot_rod said:

    I think hour fill valve is connected to a hot water line?
    If you filled the system with some hot water as the water cools, pressure will drop a few pounds.
    The indication of a leak  would be the pressure continues to drop

    That's true it is connected to the hot water heater. I figured it was such a small amount of hot water that it couldn't possibly make a difference, but perhaps that wasn't a good assumption. I'll keep looking over the next few days.
  • ThinkpadUser7
    ThinkpadUser7 Member Posts: 137
    hot_rod said:

    I think hour fill valve is connected to a hot water line?
    If you filled the system with some hot water as the water cools, pressure will drop a few pounds.
    The indication of a leak  would be the pressure continues to drop

    Another 24 hours has passed and thankfully pressure still shows a little over 17 psi.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,736

    hot_rod said:

    I think hour fill valve is connected to a hot water line?
    If you filled the system with some hot water as the water cools, pressure will drop a few pounds.
    The indication of a leak  would be the pressure continues to drop

    Another 24 hours has passed and thankfully pressure still shows a little over 17 psi.
    I would call that a win, move on to the next step :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    bburdThinkpadUser7Alan (California Radiant) Forbes