Adding Filter Above Oil Tank - Which Fittings and Filter and Valves?

HandyFS

I'd like to add a new filter to an existing older Roth oil tank setup where the filter and Firomatic are currently at the boiler. The current setup comes out of the Roth oil tank with a 3/8" shut-off valve that flares directly to the 3/8 oil line vertically. I'd like to put a 90 on and turn the line from vertical to horizontal and then get a filter worked into the line. The shut-off valve is 3/8" female on both ends. Will a filter be supported enough off the 1/2" copper that goes to the bottom of the tank, or should I be building in some hard pipe somehow?

Firomatic Location?
Should the Firomatic shut off valve stay at the oil burner pump? Or should I add one here too? Seems like it would be better left at the burner and the source of potential fire.

What type of 90?
What type of 90 would I use in this case? Which of these?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-3-8-in-MIP-x-3-8-in-FIP-90-Degree-Brass-Street-Elbow-Fitting-802179/300096151

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-BRES038-3-8-Brass-90-Deg-Street-Elbow-Lead-Free-Threaded


Filter Type:
Planning to use a General Aire filter or a spin on setup. The system currently has a General Aire at the burner:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/General-Aire-1A-25B-Fuel-Oil-Filter-9860000-p
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Gar-Ber-1600-11V-R-Gar-Ber-Spin-On-Fuel-Oil-Filter


So my plan is:
-Remove existing 3/8 shut off valve above tank
-Adapt a 3/8 Male to Female 90 adapter
-Configure back in shut off (Either this existing one, or a new Firomatic) and add oil filter that will attach to the fluted end of the 3/8 Oil line that runs to the burner
-Eliminate the filter at the burner and leave the Firomatic valve (Unless it makes sense to keep the General Aire filter at the burner too?)

Any tips appreciated.

STEVEusaPA

You would need to support the filter.
You should change the ball valve to a firomatic valve as required by code. The firomatic can have a flare fitting or you could get regular threads and get a 3/8" brass by 3/8" male flare 90. But I would just get a flared firomatic, make up a short piece of copper, flared on both ends, mount the filter to the wall with the bracket, and use flare fittings on both sides of the filter. Then I'd either have a 90 on the outlet of the filter, or start my oil line and bend a nice 90, go down and attach to the wall, and put an OSV at up to 3' above the burner, to protect the rest of the oil line from a gravity leak.
Then if you're good at flares and know how to power vacuum bleed, a firomatic on the burner.
-If you're not-
Firomatic into a Tiger Poop, put the proper bypass plug into the pump.
I personally don't like 2 filters in 2 locations. If using two, I'd put them together, General then Spin on, at the tank.
Something like this for the tank


And a double filter set up. I like the flare unions so I can take the filters and OSV out of the equation if I had to blow back a line

HandyFS

Thanks Steve,
Very helpful info, helps me understand a lot of different changes in what I had envisioned vs. what you are suggesting. I like the idea of the General Aire before the Ger Ber to help filter out crud so the spin on can do its job even better.

What is the device you have mounted to the wall, and after the 2 filters? Is that a check valve of sorts?

The wall where I would be mounting the filter is cement, so I could put a wood block or composite block and mount it to that.

I have an older Tiger Loop someone gave to me in great condition I could use, but I'd rather keep less going on with this system since its working well as is, I just need to reconfigure what's going on at the tank mainly.

EBEBRATT-Ed

To support the General Filter you could put a 3" or so x 3/8 black pipe nipple in each side of the filter. Then use 3/8 split ring hangers on the nipples with short threaded rods with F & M plates. You could support it from the wall or if you don't want to deal with the concrete you could support it from overhead from the floor joists or wood blocking.

See attached. Then just put flare x 3/8" female Ips fittings on the nipples

HandyFS

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

To support the General Filter you could put a 3" or so x 3/8 black pipe nipple in each side of the filter. Then use 3/8 split ring hangers on the nipples with short threaded rods with F & M plates. You could support it from the wall or if you don't want to deal with the concrete you could support it from overhead from the floor joists or wood blocking.

See attached. Then just put flare x 3/8" female Ips fittings on the nipples

Thanks for that add-on. Didn't think about going up that high, but that makes a lot of sense as long as the height won't cause issues with gravity and the burner oil pump pulling from the tank. The burner is about 25-30 feet from the tank. I prefer not to drill into the concrete if possible, suspending from the ceiling overhead in some fashion may be a good option I'll consider.

EBEBRATT-Ed

You don't have to mount the filter up by the floor joists. Just make the 3/8" rods long enough to put the filter just above the tank.

Brent H.

@EBEBRATT-Ed and @STEVEusaPA

Curious if there is a real benefit to having the filter at the tank versus at the burner. Especially with top feed, there is still copper before the filter that is still unprotected. Also, one filter versus two?

STEVEusaPA

@HandyFS The valve is an oil safety valve. If a leak occurs in any part of the system that is gravity, the valve prevents it from dumping the entire contents of the tank. It opens by vacuum created by the oil pump. It s also used to prevent excess inlet pressure on the pump in cases when the tank is much higher above the fuel pump.
I wouldn’t use a used Tiger Loop. Their manufacturers instructions put an expiration date on them.
@Brent H.
I don’t what you mean about unprotected copper before the filter. Should a leak develop there it would break the vacuum, and flow back into the tank, and the burner would lock out with a single pipe.
I think the benefit of filters at the tank is that any crud that comes out of the tank is immediately captured by the filter, and doesn’t get into the entire line as it would with just a filter at the burner.
Double filtration is better than single. Double filtration with a vacuum gauge and you don’t have to change the filter until the vacuum starts showing a restriction.
I have it that way at my house, filters haven’t been changed in almost 4 years.

Brent H.

@STEVEusaPA

Thanks for the info. Was just referring to the fact that having filter at the tank does protect more of the line from crud but there is still the piece before the filter that sees unfiltered oil. Is oil really filtered better with 2 filters? I used to have 2 and often wondered if it truely gained me anything beside a bigger bill when they cleaned it due to the cost of extra filter change.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Brent H.

It's like having a belt and suspenders and it all depends on the quality of the oil and the age of the tank and the size of the nozzle to a certain degree.

Back in the day an oil nozzle that was 2 or 3 or 4 gph almost never plugged up. Anything under 1 gph were more prone to plugging. With newer homes, newer more efficient equipment most nozzles are under 1.00 gph so double filters make sense and insures that you can get through the winter with out having a plugged filter.

Two filters also protect the oil line, oil pump and nozzle so it can save on replacement and cleaning of those parts

HandyFS

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

You don't have to mount the filter up by the floor joists. Just make the 3/8" rods long enough to put the filter just above the tank.

That would make it easy. This setup uses a copper tube that tips to nearly the bottom of the tank, and as you can see in the photo the copper protrudes out a good few inches, so I'll have to see if I can rework it so the copper is below the cap, and the 3/8" black pipe can be worked in on the top of the cap. The cap has the copper feeding through 1 hole, and a second hole that is capped. That may be a task for later if I can't get it done now.

STEVEusaPA said:

@HandyFS The valve is an oil safety valve. If a leak occurs in any part of the system that is gravity, the valve prevents it from dumping the entire contents of the tank. It opens by vacuum created by the oil pump. It s also used to prevent excess inlet pressure on the pump in cases when the tank is much higher above the fuel pump.
I wouldn’t use a used Tiger Loop. Their manufacturers instructions put an expiration date on them.

I didn't know that about the Tiger loops. I won't bother with it then. Is this a suitable oil safety valve? Any specific place these are best placed? Higher up, lower down, close to the burner in case it needs to be manually bled? Any tips on install appreciated so I can consider adding one in now, or at a later time. Are these typically also used with a separate check valve?
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Suntec-PRV-38-3-8-Oil-Safety-Valve-9944000-p
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Firomatic-12420-3-8-ODF-Inline-Check-Valve-w-Flare-Nuts

On the Tiger Loop, are they ideal to use? I've had other systems where they are pulling oil from the top of the steel tank and have no issue with a single-line setup. This is the first setup I'm dealing with on a Roth tank though, does that make the difference? If not, I've never had issues drawing oil from a top feed tube setup.

STEVEusaPA

First link yes. I like that you can hold the stem down to bleed.
Second link, check valve, never.
I'll use a Tiger loop if the situation warrants it, which is almost never unless I need the TGSC of the pump, like a burner above the tank (like at my shop with the furnace hanging from the ceiling.
I'll also use it pulling from an underground tank if needed.
And I have one at a customers house who is sick and elderly, outskirts of my service area, old underground tank, pulling high vacuum, to cure a nuisance lockout situation. The pic I posted, the boiler is on the floor about 8 feet to the right, no Tiger Loop.

STEVEusaPA

MikeAmann said:

I would use 2 filters, but at the tank I would have the General Aire, and the Gerber at the boiler.
Think of it as coarse and fine filtering. The spin-on is able to filter to a much finer degree.

It’s much harder for many to bleed that setup, without a TL.
However, based on the reports regarding bio fuel from BNL, and their affects on copper oil lines (and the fact the industry would never be able to go stainless steel) I'm starting to wonder if that second filter is best at the burner in high bio situations.