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Power Flame X4-400

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SC
SC Member Posts: 34
in THE MAIN WALL
I have a PF X4-400 that was installed on a oil to gas conversion more than 10 years ago. Never has a problem. Lately when the thermostat satisfied it would shut off as it should but if I increased the temperature to call (say 70 to 72) the fan would kick on but it would not ignite. PV on the gas valve would show 24V but MV would not open. I'd had to wait an hour or so before it would start again. Everything has been changed pretty much (gas valve/regulator/electrode/flame rod/control module) still have the issue. The specs call for the electrode to be 1" into the "well" and the flame rod 3/8" above that however it wouldn't light or hold the pilot. Only when the electrode was moved up about 1/2" from the flame rod would it hold pilot and energize the gas valve. It seems when set to specs the fan was "blowing" the pilot out. Good gas pressure at the pilot and gas valve. The only other thing I can think of is a partial restricted pilot orifice. No obstruction in the chimney . Good draft and no restriction on the boiler fresh air. Has anyone had an issue like this. TIA.

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  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,567
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    Not familiar with that burner. It came out after I was a Power Flame rep. PF has never been great with their testing or settings. You usually have to monkey with it to make it work.

    I don't know what you have for a control but you have a flame rod which is troublesome enough.

    First thing to do is make sure you have a good ground from the pilot and main flame burners back to the control. Without this you will not get a good flame signal. The ground usually comes back through the burner metal. Sometimes a separate wire helps.
  • SC
    SC Member Posts: 34
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    Thanks for your input. I have tried both the Honeywell control module and a Beckett control module. Maybe time to just: (A) change the burner or (B) go with an atmospheric boiler.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,567
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    @sc How old is this burner? Can you post some pictures of the burner & controls?
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,866
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    Bad air-proving switch?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • SC
    SC Member Posts: 34
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  • SC
    SC Member Posts: 34
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    I was told “no way” it’s the air switch. 🤷‍♂️
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,567
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    Anyone who is familiar with commercial burners should not have much of an issue troubleshooting that burner.

    Post you location someone may have a recommendation. Or call Power Flame and have their local rep recommend someone.

    Ther e is no reason to toss a burner or boiler just because you haven't found someone who can fix it. You just haven't found the right guy.

    The tubing from the air switch looks like it is just butted into the air shutter which doesn't look right.
  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 858
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    The air shutter looks like it is almost closed. Occasionally this can cause light off issues. I also noticed the air inlet screen appears to have some lint on it. Perhaps over time there is less combustion air than there used to be? As a result, the pilot is not igniting every time or the pilot is igniting but in the wrong location.

    We've installed and serviced hundreds of Powerflame burners over the years, Unfortunately, we only installed one X4 burner and serviced one other. For some reason they never caught on around here. These two units were actually very reliable by the way.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,567
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    @ScottSecor

    Never saw an X4. I guess they came out after we stopped being the PF rep. looks like a cheaper stripped down "C" burner. I guess they are limited to fixed fire under 400,000 btu with the residential type ignition control.

    Either way there isn't too much to the burner. Pilot, ignitor, flame rod, gas valve, air switch and burner motor. A lot of techs don't know how to measure the flame signal on those controls.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,567
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    @sc

    I would look into a possible air switch issue among other things. that is a fixed fire burner, yet the air shutter is almost closed as Scott mentioned. There are 2 tubing's on the air switch. I would disconnect them and blow them out could have dirt, dust or spiders in them.

    one tubing senses discharge pressure from the fan and looks like it goes through a hole in the side of the burner housing.

    The other tube goes in the fan suction where the adjustable air inlet adjustment is. In fact, that tube doesn't look like it can sense fan suction the way it is.....looks like the air shutter is blocking it.

    I would suspect that switch is wired in series with the main gas valve so if the switch does not close you won't get main flame.

    I looked on line at the PF web site and they don't have the burner manual available

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