Need pump for Arcoliner burner

JAG

I have a 1950s vintage Arcoliner Oil Furnace and Burner. Excellent condition until recently when the oil pump in the burner siezed up (believe it to be original). so . . .I need another one! Any idea where I might come up with something suitable? Have lots of photos including one below of the plate on the motor. Thank you! John - MA

HVACNUT

Certainly looks like a 1725 J pump.
That's not all it looks like. 
Any reason a modern retention head burner was never installed?
What kind of combustion numbers do you get with that?

EdTheHeaterMan

A1YA 7912B is what you will find that will work. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Suntec-A1YA-7912B-Single-Stage-Oil-Pump-1725-RPM. But @HVACNUT makes a good point.

JAG

Ed - - thank you! John

EdTheHeaterMan

That boiler is built like a tank and might last forever. Why not look at a RW Beckett or Riello burner with higher efficiency flame retention technology? Might cut your fuel usage by 10% or more. And the parts are available. You already have one of the new electronic ignitors. I can see that the wire from the old ignition transformer to the motor is not installed properly. That could be a hazard!

JAG

Ed, i am open to suggestions as to exactly what newer burner would improve things. I do have a Beckett burner that someone discarded. I could check it's details and see if it could be refurbished, or simply buy one off the shelf. (and your comment about the wire is well taken.) The furnace is backup for wood these days but comes in very handy at key times (like we need to be away).

thank you for your time! John

EdTheHeaterMan

I believe you have an Arcoliner Boiler. That boiler has a wet base design. meaning that there is water under the flame and on the sides of the flame. The Riello burner will work nicely in that environment with no combustion chamber. That means the radiant heat from the flame will be absorbed by the water below the flame along with the convection heat as the flue gas travels thru the heat exchanging surfaces in the rest of the boiler. You may actually be using a smaller firing rate and get more actual heat transfer into the water that goes to the radiators.


This is not a DIY project for the average homeowner. You will want to have an oil burner man that is familiar with Riello burners. If you can not find a Riello friendly burner tech in your area, then the RW Beckett chassis you have may be acceptable.


That Beckett is the foundation of a very efficient burner. You will need to make some measurements of the burner door, the thickness including the refractory material that is there or may need to be added. That will give you the insertion depth of the firing tube. You may need to add a refractory blanket to the bottom in order to reflect heat back into the flame for the best combustion numbers .


You need to know the firing rate you require to maintain a flue gas exit temperature high enough to minimize flue gas condensation. Otherwise you will rot out the boiler with condensation that mixes with trace elements of the combustion process like sulfur and carbon. When enough of that mixes with water, sulphuric acid and carbonic acid forms and eats away at the cast iron. Then your boiler that is built like a tank will become scrap iron, that is difficult to get out of the basement..


Once you have determined that firing rate you must select the air tube combination for that burner boiler combination. Beckett has over 170 different ones that will fit that burner. After determining the proper air tube, and firing head combination, you can then assemble everything in order to achieve the best possible efficiency. After you get close, you then need a combustion analyzer to fine tune the burner settings.


Then and only then can you be sure you are saving all the $$$ you can with your investment in those parts.

JAG

hi Ed Thank you for all the particulars. I have copied them to a file and saved them.

Back to my immediate problem. The pump you directed me to. How "bolt on" is it? Trying to think it thru, I need to: connect my fuel line, couple the pump to the motor, and have the nozzle end up in the same physical location relative to the electrodes. Perhaps I have forgotten something. Having the pump couple to the motor is critical, of course. Is any kind of adapter needed, for example?

If I can get a furnace person to install it, I am fine with that. Just not confident these days.

John

HVACNUT

@JAG, you'd be hard pressed to find a "furnace person" that even know what they're looking at. 

Is upgrading the burner out of the question? Beckett offers a pedestal since it won't bolt on with a flange alone.
It would eliminate the 90 second safety stack primary and give you a 15 second cad cell primary. 
I've put many Beckett AFG burners in those old American Standards, and with good tuning and draft adjustments, it's more efficient than a low speed burner. 

How did you diagnose a bad fuel pump?

JAG

"furnace person" - - I have only dealt with a couple. They seem to work at the component level only - replace a component and hope that does it. I had some corroded contact points that took me about 20 seconds to take care of - - never occurred to the "furnace person" to check such.

The pump is completely siezed. No rotation at all.

I am fine with upgrading the burner. But at the moment I need to get the furnace running correctly so we can be away for 3 days after Christmas. After that, putting a more . modern and efficient burner in sounds fine but needs to be done carefully and by a competent person. I seem to be more talented at finding barely competent people.

I have one of those cad cell control units. The company that delivers my oil told me if I got one, they would install it. So I did. They showed up and said "Oh! That's really old. We can't put it on that."

So right now I am looking to put a new pump in my existing burner and get back to where I was a few weeks ago.

Big Ed_4

What you need to know is the part you need ... 1725 flanged J pump . Clock wise looking at the shaft . You may find reversible which is ok . Buy a new long nozzle line and a heavy duty burner coupling . Sid Harveys , Ferguson, Granger

Try rotation the pump in reverse until it feels free . Sometimes the gears jam with hard grit .

JAG

I took the pump out to have a look. Only saw it for a couple minutes when the furnace person was here (and the shaft siezed up).

The shaft does turn. A couple times I could feel some gritty resistance. Then it seemed to turn freely.

It has a 4-5" flexible coupling on it. I can see a flat side to the shaft from the motor (although no comparable flat on the pump.)

So there seems no reason I can't open it up some and do some cleaning. The only cleaning I did when I overhauled it in September was to clean the metal screen out. (there is a new filter at the tank end, in case you're wondering).

MikeAmann

Maybe the pump is fine and the coupling is bad?

JAG

Well you raise a good question. I have to investigate further. I looked in the burner housing at the motor and saw a clear, conventional flat side on the shaft. But the flexible shaft that goes over it . . .just a round plastic end. I don't see how they effectively connect. Gotta look further. Pointless to have a functional pump and no way to drive it, it seems.

(Later) - no - had it wrong. The motor has a coupling almost an inch in diameter with 4 grooves in it, which apparently accept 4 protrusions from the plastic coupling on the flexible shaft to the pump. All this seems undamaged. The flat side on the smaller motor shaft misled me (not all that hard).

So the pump, which was siezed up 2 weeks ago, turns pretty well. I don't think I have anything to lose if I do some cleaning. Who knows what crud I will find?

EBEBRATT-Ed

@JAG
The oil pump you are looking for is a Sundstrand/Suntec model J flange mount (some are hub mounted with set screws but you don't have that) Looking at the shaft end of the pump it rotates clockwise. The nozzle port is on the left side. You identify the rotation and the ports by looking at the shaft end


If you clean the top of the pump you will probably find the arrow showing rotation and model numbers.

Ther are probably several models of this same pump that will work so you may not get an 'exact match" but it will work.

Some of the older burner couplings are attached to the pump and motor shafts with 1/8" allen head set screw. Or it could be a coupling that just slides in. The motor shafts are usually 1/2" and the pump shaft is 7/16"

If you have a plastic coupling it is a round tube wit splines in it that the plastic ends slide in to. You can buy a coupling lit and cut it to fit if the old one is bad.

EdTheHeaterMan

JAG said:

hi Ed Thank you for all the particulars. I have copied them to a file and saved them.

Back to my immediate problem. The pump you directed me to. How "bolt on" is it? Trying to think it thru, I need to: connect my fuel line, couple the pump to the motor, and have the nozzle end up in the same physical location relative to the electrodes. Perhaps I have forgotten something. Having the pump couple to the motor is critical, of course. Is any kind of adapter needed, for example?

If I can get a furnace person to install it, I am fine with that. Just not confident these days.

John

The bolt holes are the same and the hole in the burner will accept the pump. The difference in the length of the shaft will mean that you need to purchase a new burner coupling to connect the motor to the pump. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Auburn-S85-500-Nylo-Flex-Coupling-Kit-One-1-2-One-7-16-One-5-16-End-Pieces-6-Nyloshaft-Replaces-Crown-KK100?_br_psugg_q=kk100. The openings for the fuel line from the tank may be different but not so far off that you will need new fuel line as long as there is a little play in the fuel line near the burner.

The High pressure line from the pump to the nozzle is on the opposite side, so I would order a longer high pressure line. I believe that you may have 1/4" compression fitting or 3/16". Flare fitting. I would order a 11" long line of the size you need for the nozzle assembly connection. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-51127-11-Nozzle-Line?_br_psugg_q=nozzle+line
You can use the old fittings from the existing pump because they are the same dimension.

If you have 1/4" copper nozzle line, then you may need to source 1/4" copper and make the flare yourself. (or you oil burner pro)

JAG

Sunday. Took the pump to the workshop to investigate. The coupling seems fine. Held on by a small Allen bolt hitting a flat on the pump shaft. Splines at the other end seem OK.

Did not find any dirt of any kind, once the end cover was off. Took the pump itself apart. Clean. No wobble.

But nothing turns easily. Seems like things should. All plain bearing contact. Everything takes some effort.

I took the outer part of the pump apart - has teeth. About the size of a silver dollar. Did not turn especially easy in its race. Found some scoring and polished it up. Turns easier now.

Putting it back together and will try it for the heck of it. As before, I found nothing that turned as easily as it seemed it should. No visual reason why except for the scoring I mentioned.

At this point: a) they don't turn all that easily or b) I need a new pump.

It occurs to me that in 65 years, at 1750 RPM, the number of rotations that pump has made is astronomical.

SuperTech

It's incredible how long that lasted. I service two Arcoliners similar to that one. One still has the 1750 RPM burner, the other one was converted to an AFG in the late 70s or early 80s. The old man with the low speed burner is convinced it will outlast him so he doesn't care about any gains in efficiency. I know if it were mine I would install a AFG or Carlin EZ-1 before I replace the old oil pump. 

JAG

Does an empty pump need to be primed? (meaning put oil in before using it).

Big Ed_4

Yes , on the chin of the pump below the strainer cover is a bleeder , yours seems to be the 1/8" Allan key type

EBEBRATT-Ed

@JAG

You should be able to turn the pump shaft but they do have some resistance. Motor oil is the best thing to prime a pump.

Big Ed_4

There is a plate behind the strainer basket to access the gears if you sucked up sand. If you are in a fix ...