Steam heat leak?

NycCoOp3

My 20 floor apt building said they were sending a peppermint odorant through the steam heating system to test for leaks. They wanted to know if people smelled it in their apartments/radiators.

They turned the heat off during this test and did something with pressure I think. I did not have smell but while the heat was off, I had this noise. I’ve never heard this noise before and the noise stopped when they turned the heat back on. 

Is this a pipe or radiator behind my cabinets? Is this a leak or a problem? 

I don’t know how to attach the video? 

OldHouseNewOwner

I wouldn’t worry about the noise if you did not smell any mint and the noise disappeared once heating was restored to normal. For a video - if you can post it on YouTube, just paste the link here.

Mad Dog_2

Geez..I happen to Love 💘 Peppermint, but oil of peppermint is usually used to find leaks on Soil, waste & and sanitary vent systems.  That could be a little saccharine sweet & pungent to deal with AND I'm not sure how effective its going to be.  I'd try a Stethoscope or  Infrared camera.  Mad Dog 🐕 

DanHolohan

What sort of noise?

NycCoOp3

https://youtube.com/shorts/j4PMV3kjF2o?si=l_7OL3Kl6lGBSHs_

NycCoOp3

Thank you all for your help! I posted the link to the YouTube video so you can hear the sound.

Essentially my building ran this peppermint odorant tracing test to find out if there are leaks because the building is not heating efficiently. 

I have never had noise or hissing anything while the heat is on. They turned the heat off and ran this test and I got this sound. Once they stopped the test, the sound stopped. 

I told them I had noise, not smell. They said they want to start cutting holes looking for pipes and potentially tear out my kitchen cabinets and countertops to see these pipes. I would be responsible to redo and repair my kitchen if the granite breaks and this will be expensive. 

This is why I am asking for advice and trying to figure out what is going on back there or if a demolition like that would be necessary. 

NycCoOp3

I agree, the peppermint test did not seem that insightful. I can propose a stethoscope or infrared camera, thank you. I already have a whole in my wall and I hesitate to let them go on this fishing expedition. But I don’t know that I can say no as an owner/shareholder in this Nyc co-op. 

mattmia2

Is the system losing an unusual amount of water? A leak in the system large enough to effect energy usage would cause a lot of damage from the moisture from the steam and would be noticeable with inspection. What could go unnoticed is a leak in the boiler itself. The test for that would be to flood the boiler and see if water leaks out. Anyone competent to do this evaluation would have done that.

The first step is to add a water meter to the boiler or use the reading on an auto feeder or shut off the auto feeder and see if the water level goes down over a few days. Bad vents or steam traps will cause water to be lost. Is this 1 or 2 pipe?

What is more likely is that there are other system problems like bad vents, incorrect pipe pitch, incorrect near boiler piping, incorrect boiler controls or settings, oversized boiler, or similar issues.

Reading "We Got Steam Heat" might be a first step in talking to the board about if any of their plan makes sense.

NycCoOp3

I will read that and try to propose some ideas to the board — hopefully they will listen — thank you so much for your insight and recommendations. 

Dan_NJ

If they haven't already done so I would want some detail on exactly what the issue is, what they suspect is the cause, and exactly what has been done so far to locate and mitigate it. Before they start putting more holes in the wall and taking out the kitchen cabinets etc. Is this an outside wall? Any access from the other side of it? Like the suggestions above, depending on who is looking at this they could be overlooking something, or multiple things. Particularly if you are on the hook for repairs to your living space.

Mad Dog_2

Yeah..they need to take a step back !  Unless you have a big wet spot its not wise to start to smash & bash the wal  & ceilings. Air pressure test  on risers..much wiser approach   mad dog 🐕 

EBEBRATT-Ed

The noise sounds like air or steam could be escaping. You need to find out what they are thinking

NycCoOp3

Thank you guys. There is no access from the other side. Above the cabinet is a window. The other side is just the outside of the brick building. 

mattmia2

I assume this ids 2 pipe otherwise if you tested it cold the compressed air would just go out every radiator vent.

Most likely there is a steam trap back in there somewhere either at an emitter that someone built your cabinets in front of or at the end of a main that connects to a return. I suspect that the sound is just compressed air moving from that main to the return through the trap which is open because it is cold.

It also could just be a return that runs through that space or a drip that drips down in to the basement below the water line or in to a trap in the basement.

reggi

Is there a Company troubleshooting this or are they just winging it with hired laborers?  Are you the only one that heard that whooshing noise and is that why they chose to go in through your wall ? I don't believe they wouldn't of heard that above or below you.... how were they introducing the peppermint into the system...air compressor? 
I don't think they have a clue what they're doing except trying to save money by not getting pros in there..

Mad Dog_2

Reggi is dead on.  Sometimes "outsiders" have great, novel ideas 💡...most times, not.  A good plumber who can find tiny, natural gas leaks in Mulit-tenent apartment buildings need to be involved. And, of course,  As Dan always Quipped 🙄 "They work on the heat in the winter & The AC in the summer (while it needs to operate!  No too smart, Fredo!!!)."  This needs to wait until May...then you can cap & Isolate until leaks are found.   Mad Dog 🐕 

Neild5

That sounds like pressurized air traveling through a pipe and not a leak in the pipe behind the wall.  Before I would let them randomly tear my kitchen apart I would want more proof there was a problem in the wall.  If that pipe leaks, there should be water damage below the leak.

NycCoOp3

well my building did some more investigating and said they found a steam leak in an expansion joint in my neighbor’s apartment. They said the plumber said all expansion joints will be on my floor (8th) and that they want to look at all the heating pipes in the expansion joints. And they think this is what that noise was.