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Replacement for Beckett AFG nozzle assembly

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PNJ
PNJ Member Posts: 52
in Oil Heating
When changing the burner nozzle (75/80 A) I have a small leak at the flare on the Beckett AFG nozzle assembly. The flare fitting appears to be seated firmly before tightening back up, but I see the beginning threads of the assembly are slightly stripped. I can tighten it but can't seem to stop the moisture. The flare seems ok. Not sure why I can't stop the small leak.

My oil burner was installed in the mid-late 90, no documentation for anything. How do I find the correct assembly, only by the tube length?

https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/search/~SEARCH_STRING=Beckett AFG nozzle assembly

Thanks

Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,904
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    Does your oil burner have any of the stickers left on it, like in the bottom of this photo? There may be a part number that will tell you what Nozzle Assembly you have.

    Sometimes there is a part number on the side of the burner also.
    If not then you need to purchase the complete air tube assembly with the matching nozzle assembly

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,904
    edited November 2023
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    https://www.beckettcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/New-6578-AFG-Product-Sheet-UL-Listed-072123.pdf
    At the bottom of the second page are air tube combinations that will fit your burner. It is difficult to determine what air tube you have based on the nozzle assembly only/. you actually need to measure the tube itself to see how long it is. once you know that then you can select an airtube combination that is the same length. if you are lucky the assemblies will match. If not then you will need to swap out the air tube to match the assembly.

    Can you take a picture from the transformer opening down the tube so I can see the end cone. Use the flash feature when taking the picture.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,562
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    @PNJ

    I am trying to attach the Beckett AFG manual. I think you can find what you need in there.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,904
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    Same info about the assembly length in that book. But you need to provide more info about your burner to select the right part.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    There is no tube on my system, just the assembly.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,904
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    I can tighten it but can't seem to stop the moisture. The flare seems ok. Not sure why I can't stop the small leak.


    Did you put the escutcheon nut on backwards? That may be the problem

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    EdTheHeaterMan said:


    Can you take a picture from the transformer opening down the tube so I can see the end cone. Use the flash feature when taking the picture.



    the end looks like this with the fins

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-AFG50MBAS-Air-Tube-for-Beckett-Burner

  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    EdTheHeaterMan said:


    Did you put the escutcheon nut on backwards? That may be the problem

    No, flat side is against the box and the flare nut seats into it.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,562
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    @EdTheHeaterMan looks like an "L" head on the burner sticker. Firing rate 'something-1.10gph
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,904
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    Can you take the same picture with the nozzle assembly removed?

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
    edited November 2023
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    Looking at the old small copper line leading into the nozzle assembly, I want to also replace that with new flared line.

    Will this Crown line work on Beckett, are they universal for nozzle assemblies? Or does the nozzle line have to be specific for Beckett? I can't find anything else, and Beckett is closed on weekends for technical support.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crown-40454-Oil-Burner-Nozzle-Line-Oil-Line-3-16-Flare-X-3-16-Flare-X-12-Length/763220459

    Apparently I can't just buy copper and flare it myself, it has to fit tight into the assembly's threaded opening. https://www.beckettcorp.com/?s=nozzle+line
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,904
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    Looks like the important numbers are gone: MFR'S SETTINGS. So no help there. You need to measure the actual tube length.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
    edited November 2023
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  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 998
    edited November 2023
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    Is this what you are looking for? https://www.supplyhouse.com/Rheem-59-19206-18-Copper-Oil-Line-3-16-O-D-x-6-1-2-w-Flare-Ends
    If so, then measure the length you need and order the appropriate one.
    I think that you can even get this at Home Depot.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,562
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    You can flare your own tubing but it is just easier and better to buy one. They are all 3/16 tubing and the flares are standard.
  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    Not sure. I saw the Beckett version of this https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-5394-8-Nozzle-Line but it is only compatible with certain models, so I don't know if this will fit snugly into the Beckett nozzle air tube. My system is old and I don't have the model number. If the flares are standard why would they limit this to a few models?
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,562
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    Your best bet would be to take the assembly to a supply house that sells Beckett and have them match it up.
    MikeAmann
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,844
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    Were you able to perform combustion, smoke, and draft tests even though you've got that pesky little drip?
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,863
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    @PNJ , did that burner come with the boiler or furnace that it's mounted on? If so, what make and model is that unit?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    @Steamhead I don't know before my time here. There is no legible model number. Furnace was replaced in the mid-late 90's but I'm thinking the parts were from the old furnace, since 1988 is readable. But I really don't know.
  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    @HVACNUT beyond my pay grade. The reason I changed the nozzle and filter myself is because of the bad service calls here in the past. The little drip is now worse so I'm out of heat and hot water until I find a replacement nozzle assembly, the air tube threads must be stripped.
  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    EdTheHeaterMan said:

    Can you take the same picture with the nozzle assembly removed?

    @EdTheHeaterMan here is looking into the empty space where the nozzle assembly goes, to the chamber. There is no tube, just the nozzle and electrodes with the shield that goes there. Threads are stripped so I'm out of heat until I find a replacement.


  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,863
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    PNJ said:

    @Steamhead I don't know before my time here. There is no legible model number. Furnace was replaced in the mid-late 90's but I'm thinking the parts were from the old furnace, since 1988 is readable. But I really don't know.

    Can you post a pic?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
    edited November 2023
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    @Steamhead there some info on a sticker on the furnace itself but it's all worn off the Beckett oil burner





  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,863
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    Found it. Search on Lennox here:

    https://www.beckettcorp.com/support/burner-settings/

    The AFG air tube assembly ending in MB used on the COWB series is the AFG50MB. You need the nozzle line for this assembly. I don't see it on the site but one could call Beckett to get the part# that would then be ordered thru a supplier.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    PNJ
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,904
    edited November 2023
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    Order this part https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-AFG50MBAS-Air-Tube-for-Beckett-Burner

    and this part also https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-5394-8-Nozzle-Line


    If we did not have the boiler model number Lennox COWB-3, we would need the tube length and the L1 style head info to get you something that would work.
    The air tube length is the yellow line dimension. It would show up in the DEPTH column on this spec sheet above. With the part number AFG50MB you can get the correct size tube combination and just use the assembly part and scrap or save the tube for something else.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    MikeAmannPNJ
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 998
    edited November 2023
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    He is going to need a flange gasket also, and maybe a new fuel line nut. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-3666-Locknut-Bulkhead-Fitting
    PNJ
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    EBEBRATT-Ed said:

    Your best bet would be to take the assembly to a supply house that sells Beckett and have them match it up.

    I’d think the best bet would be to get a competent tech. After all someone has to do a combustion test after the parts cannon was fired.



    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    MikeAmannSuperTech
  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    @EdTheHeaterMan thank you Ed. The previous competent tech people have always used a 75/ 80A nozzle on this furnace, the specs you posted show to use a 70 degree spray pattern. Which one is best, and why would they have been using the 80 for years if 70 is recommended?
  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    MikeAmann said:

    He is going to need a flange gasket also, and maybe a new fuel line nut. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-3666-Locknut-Bulkhead-Fitting

    For the burner or the air tube? For replacing the nozzle tube, I don't see a gasket for this anywhere. The metal mounting bracket never had a gasket.


  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    @EdTheHeaterMan there is no info in the depth number on the spec sheet. The tube opening is about 6" long. On this part page https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-AFG50MBAS-Air-Tube-for-Beckett-Burner there oddly are no specs, like how long it is. Do you think this is it?
    EdTheHeaterMan said:

    Order this part https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-AFG50MBAS-Air-Tube-for-Beckett-Burner

    and this part also https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-5394-8-Nozzle-Line


    If we did not have the boiler model number Lennox COWB-3, we would need the tube length and the L1 style head info to get you something that would work.
    The air tube length is the yellow line dimension. It would show up in the DEPTH column on this spec sheet above. With the part number AFG50MB you can get the correct size tube combination and just use the assembly part and scrap or save the tube for something else.

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,844
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    PNJ said:
    @HVACNUT beyond my pay grade. The reason I changed the nozzle and filter myself is because of the bad service calls here in the past. The little drip is now worse so I'm out of heat and hot water until I find a replacement nozzle assembly, the air tube threads must be stripped.
    Might be quicker to re-thread the assembly and get a new 3/16 nozzle line. Got a tap and die set?

    However, you need to find an experienced oil tech. You not only don't have the pay grade, you don't have the instruments to ensure proper combustion. 
    Maybe get some LL CO detectors?
  • PNJ
    PNJ Member Posts: 52
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    @HVACNUT can you tell me how simply replacing the nozzle assembly with a duplicate will affect the combustion? The furnace ran nicely before changing the nozzle. What would change if I am only replacing the same thing with, hopefully, the compatible if not identical assembly? I fully intend on getting it serviced again by a competent technician when I can find one. Right now I just want to get it running again.

    So how does only replacing this air tube affect combustion, I don't understand.

    Thanks
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,844
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    PNJ said:
    @HVACNUT can you tell me how simply replacing the nozzle assembly with a duplicate will affect the combustion? The furnace ran nicely before changing the nozzle. What would change if I am only replacing the same thing with, hopefully, the compatible if not identical assembly? I fully intend on getting it serviced again by a competent technician when I can find one. Right now I just want to get it running again. So how does only replacing this air tube affect combustion, I don't understand. Thanks
    Every nozzle has an allowance of +/- 10% its stamped rating. If a stamped 1.00 GPH nozzle is actually producing 1.10 GPH, then adjustments are likely necessary. And the only way to make those adjustments is with the proper instruments. You could very well have a fire that looks good, but is putting out 500 ppm CO in the flue, and that ain't kosher. If you're going to do service, at least invest in a wet kit. Others here have.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    @hvacnut I think he meant just replacing the nozzle assembly with the same nozzle.
    I really don't agree with providing any of the how-to in this thread. But I agree with @hvacnut about nozzles and their allowance.

    However, technically, if you used the same nozzle, in a new exact nozzle assembly, the following issues could (probably would) occur.
    -The nozzle won't tighten in the exact same spot in the assembly, therefore the spray pattern won't be the same as it was from the last combustion test. It's not a perfect cone, and rotation could affect that.
    -The nozzle assembly may not land EXACTLY in the same spot (z dimension). If you ever put a nozzle assembly in, before you tighten the nut, there is a little in and out play. That will change combustion. How much? A 1/4" can mean the difference between great combustion and creating a soot monster. Even when you tighten the spline nut, the assembly can actually lift, changing the air pattern thru the air tube. Now on old crap this won't matter much, if at all. But all the newer stuff is a lot tighter.
    -The nozzle in the new assembly probably won't mate at the exact same angle as it did in the old assembly, changing the pattern slightly, maybe even causing impingement.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 998
    edited November 2023
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    Might be quicker to re-thread the assembly and get a new 3/16 nozzle line. Got a tap and die set?


    You can't get a new nozzle line separately from Beckett. I already tried last year.
    You must order the entire NLEA assembly.
    I would bet money that his air tube length is 5".
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,904
    edited November 2023
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    PNJ said:

    @EdTheHeaterMan thank you Ed. The previous competent tech people have always used a 75/ 80A nozzle on this furnace, the specs you posted show to use a 70 degree spray pattern. Which one is best, and why would they have been using the 80 for years if 70 is recommended?

    Sometimes the Tech does not have a 70° nozzle on the truck. I remember that for years, I only carried 80° and 60° nozzles. 70° was not very popular and often hard to get. There are a lot more burners that use that nozzle today and since about 2008 I started to order a few sizes of nozzle in 70°.

    And often the factory spec nozzle operates a little noisy and swapping from a 70°A to an 80°W quiets them down.

    As far as measuring the air tube... not necessary, since you will be getting the same size tube, you will not need to replace the tube. You can use just the nozzle assembly and throw the air tube away

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,904
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    After you get the part and put everything back together, you will want to have a technician that has a combustion analyzer come and set up the burner for you. Unless you want to spend $900 to $1200 on a combustion analyzer for yourself, and take a class in combustion theory and learn how to use the analyzer. Usually not worth the time and effort if the only oil burner you are working on is the one in your own home.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,313
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    EdTheHeaterMan said:


    After you get the part and put everything back together, you will want to have a technician that has a combustion analyzer come and set up the burner for you. Unless you want to spend $900 to $1200 on a combustion analyzer for yourself, and take a class in combustion theory and learn how to use the analyzer. Usually not worth the time and effort if the only oil burner you are working on is the one in your own home.

    Yes to this. @PNJ, let us know where you're located. We may be able to help you find a pro.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

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