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Ways to use a 4 way mixing valve when you don't want to buy a 3 way

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HydroNiCK
HydroNiCK Member Posts: 182
edited October 2023 in THE MAIN WALL
Can I plug a port on the taco iseries 4 way valve with odr? Send the return somewhere else? When  installing a 4 way valve for boiler protection on a cast iron boiler with baseboard and a radiant zone you get rid of the cast iron and install a condensing boiler... how could I pipe/ways I can utilize the 4 way so I don't have to buy a 3 way?  

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  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,467
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    Do you have the valve in hand? look or blow through the ports. You might be able to plug one port,
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • HydroNiCK
    HydroNiCK Member Posts: 182
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    Whaaatya mean? I'm huffing n puffing. Now what? It modulates I can blow through every port potentially. I'm not picking up what your putting down
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    Do you understand the difference in how a 3 way and 4 way work?
    Pipe a 4 way the way it's supposed to be piped, or if you don't want to repipe, pipe a 3 way the way it's supposed to be piped.
    Square peg, round hole?

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • HydroNiCK
    HydroNiCK Member Posts: 182
    edited November 2023
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    Do you understand the difference in how a 3 way and 4 way work? Pipe a 4 way the way it's supposed to be piped, or if you don't want to repipe, pipe a 3 way the way it's supposed to be piped. Square peg, round hole?

    Re-pipe whAt? Who installs a boiler and piping to accommodate a valve? I'm asking for ways and  ideas to make the valve I have accommodate me.  Just like Tekmar did with their 4-way 116 valve; they tell you you can plug the boiler  return port.  I obviously understand  how they work if im resorting to asking others if they know of another way to make it work because... I know it ain't gonna work. Or, at least not ideally work. Depending on your system's temps one may be inclined to install a 4 way instead of a 3 way because It's what they already have and saving $500 to them is what works.  So back to my question can the i-series 4 way be plugged or how could I pipe/ways I can utilize the 4 way so I don't have to buy a 3 way?  I don't care if you tell me you piped the Valve return through your basement up  to a kickspace heater than ran it out your kitchen window back in to the boiler if the return temp worked in your favor. I was hoping for something better than just pipe it the way your supposed to pipe it.  Just like if you asked me how to fit a square peg through a round hole id tell you  the square's diagonal  needs to equal the circle's diameter. The diagonal is a hypotenuse calculation (a2 + b2 = c2).  and since a square has equal sides, a=b, so that side of the equation can be combined as 2a2 = c2. To find c (the hypotenuse of the square, which is the diameter of the circle),  take the square root of 2a2. For a square peg with 1" sides the hypotenuse=diameter=1.41 , either the circle needs to be 41.42% larger, or the peg needs to be 29.29% smaller for the peg to fit.

    STEVEusaPA
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 669
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    Is this just an affect being adopted in order to get a negative reaction? Or a complete lack of decorum and self awareness? Either one will not get you far. Read the room and good luck.
    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager,teacher and dog walker
    SuperTech
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,467
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    It kinda depends on how the valve is built inside. The tekmar and Esbe had a vane or cylinder that could allow flow in all ports. I thought the Taco had a ball with the side carved away for the 3 rd port.
    That is why I suggested looking inside, disassembling, or blowing in the various ports to see which ones have flow to one another.

    Or ask Taco?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    HydroNiCK
  • Joe Mattiello
    Joe Mattiello Member Posts: 707
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    Taco does not have any empirical data on how a 4 way valve will work with one port closed. I'm sorry if you have to purchase a 3 way, but that will be best practice to minimize any issues when modifying a valve. for further assistance, contact taco tech support at 401-942-8000 and ask for tech support.
    Joe Mattiello
    N. E. Regional Manger, Commercial Products
    Taco Comfort Solutions
    HydroNiCK
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,467
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    Is it built like this tekmar? I think most 4 port look similar inside. How else would they blend. As you can see, plugging the upper port would still allow mixing from two sides.

    If the control sensor was a foot or so downstream I think it would modulate, depending on the actuator movement. I would guess it runs from the two extremes, side to side.

    Send one over, I'll connect it and see how it sounds :)

    The big difference between 3 and 4 is the 4 port has two mixing conditions. So it would protect the boiler and provide mix down for low temperature radiant. A great solution when cast iron boilers were the main radiant heat source.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • HydroNiCK
    HydroNiCK Member Posts: 182
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    Hmmm. The engineers don't know what could happen?  Your saying I'm going into uncharted territory?  Like Don Rumsfeld said "We know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know."
     
     Taco has no empirical data because they didn't become fixated on this plug like I almost did. The 4 way valve provides condensation protection which doesn't imply it can't.be used elsewhere.  If you do the math and use one. circulator instead of two and realize it's about the piping and not the plugging I think it's going to work.  Good news for those reading this wondering what they can do with their 4 way mixing valve after they switched out their cast iron boiler for a modcon.